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3701 W.119th
Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 386
Location: Central China
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 Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Jmbf wrote: |
| They have to give up the comforts of home, travel half-way around the world, be away from family and friends etc etc. So I think it's right that they should be compensated appropriately. |
I get what you're saying man, and I appreciate it. But, really, so many expats act like China should compensate them for the great privilege of having their presence here. They 'have' to give up the comforts of home? Who forced them?
Lot of entitled, self-indulgent expats in this country. I kind of think, just go home if it's so bad. China doesn't owe you a lavish lifestyle.
Again, I know what you're saying, but at the extreme end of the argument sit some really shit people. At the other end, some fantastic professional language teachers, and they should be compensated accordingly. But, in China, this is really the thin end of the wedge. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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requiring more education than ESL.
So true |
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Shanghai Noon
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Posts: 589
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| 3701 W.119th wrote: |
| Especially when they make more than some Chinese doctors, and the only 'skill' that most of them have is that they speak English. It's shameful. |
Doctors make less than we do because the doctors' fees are set so that the average Chinese person can afford them. If doctors made more than we did, medical services would be out of reach for literally millions of people. The consequences of doctors being out of reach are very different from those of foreign teachers being out of reach. That's why we can ask for more and get it. |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Once again, the probable chance is that a local is making more in hand but less on paper.
They get various breaks in mortgage allowances, thirteen months pay, extra money for doing stuff.
My friends wife works in the tax office, her official salary is 1800 RMB a month, with bonuses, time off, holiday pay, other various cash in hand stuff[including people constantly wanting her to 'hurry' their application with supermarket cards etc.] she clears at least 10,000.
I will always remember when I was getting my 6000 RMB salary in a university in Xi'an. An old Chinese teacher said 'you don't deserve to get that much!' to which I replied 'you are getting more.' He smirked as they announced his 3000 RMB salary and said 'See, I don't! Rich foreigner.' He then proceeded to go outside and get into his $60000 Audi. Student's later said that he was known to take money for grades and had a hand in selecting masters students, all of whom had to pay money to get in.
That's the way it works. One English teacher I worked with[a local] had 3 cars and 3 houses....I couldn't afford either. Turns out he got lots of lucrative job offers on the side from students parents who had businesses. He told me once he got 200,000 RMB for naming a shopping complex 'Diamond Plaza'. That was it. |
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mandu
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 794
Location: china
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:12 am Post subject: |
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I get 13000 a month for 12 months of the year,if I was single this would be easy to live off.no bonus,no over time,just salary.
but having a family this is not much money at all.my wife still looks after our son at home,once rent and bills and food are paid for there is not much left over.
I remember around 2002 2003 there were a lot of teaching jobs in Shenzhen with good deals.plane ticket,housing,good pay.
one Kindergarten I worked in at that time gave me 6000 a month plus a free apartment and they went got me new Furniture with a new computer.and I also got to go on free trips away with the kindergarten.
just before I came to China the kindergarten I was going to work for sent me a free plane ticket.
the good days are gone |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:30 am Post subject: |
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I saw some 'international' high school programs in SZ that paid quite well. Some in Qingdao too (though less than a similar job in BJ or SH).
I was searching for jobs near my girlfriend's hometown and found a posting around 6 years old or so for an international middle school program offering 2,500rmb per month. Now you'd have to pay 6 times that to attract a qualified person. Wages seem to have gone up but of course there's inflation as well. |
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Simon in Suzhou
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 404
Location: GZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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The OP perused a few ONLINE job sites and declared that Shenzhen salaries are pathetically low? LOL
Salaries are not low in Shenzhen. |
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Timer
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Posts: 173
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
| Once again, the probable chance is that a local is making more in hand but less on paper. |
And they love ignoring this and only using their official salary when they argue with us "rich" foreigners. It's bad enough when they do it, but it's even worse when foreign teachers start using it to attack each other. Wake up, guys. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:59 am Post subject: salary update |
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So it seems the average salary for a foreign teacher in Shenzhen is around 12-13k RMB per month.
Shenzhen has near the same, if not the same cost of living as Shanghai these days, yet its average salary is so poor and pathetic. Laughing What is the reason behind this? |
12,000 rmb is equal to $1935 u.s. dollars per month (or $64.50 per day for 30 days), 13,000 is equal to $2096 u.s. dollars per month (or $69.90 per day for 30 days).
If you take into account that the position almost always includes free accommodation, it is not as bad a salary as you might initially think. You have to look at the big picture, about the Chinese economic situation.
Rich cities like Shenzhen, Shanghai and Guangzhou have high costs for housing, for locals, but since EFL teachers are not concerned with housing the salary is not that bad.
In provincial cities in China, most EFL teachers are lucky to get more than 7000 rmb, equal to $1129 u.s. dollars per month, (or $37.63 per day for 30 days).
People always talk about the expenses in cities like Shanghai and Shenzhen, but if you are adventurous, you can still find some good dining options. Remember, even in a place like Shenzhen, a public school teacher (Chinese) there only earns around 3000 rmb per month ($483 u.s. dollars per month). Of course, most, if not all, Chinese teachers have second jobs, not necessarily teaching, so their official salaries do not tell the whole story. As for food, if you shop in supermarkets, the prices in high tier and low tier cities are pretty similar. Restaurant prices are not starkly different either. In Guangzhou, all those Lanzhou restaurants serve meals in the 10 - 15 rmb range, and they do the job. In Shenzhen, the restaurant - Saizeriya - an ersatz Italian restaurant catering to the locals is also very good value for money. Saizeriya is also the most popular restaurant, by far, (judging from the lengthy lines of people waiting to enter, while other restaurants are only half full) in Guangzhou East Railway Shopping Mall. Meals there fall in the 10 - 20 rmb range, accessible to most. http://www.startinchina.com/shenzhen/eating/saizeriya_italian_restaurant.html - in Shenzhen - Saizeriya also has phenomenal success....
Shenzhen middle class parents are 'education mad', so, as in most Chinese cities, teachers can supplement their base incomes with a lot of private tutoring. That could increase your salary by a few thousand renminbi if you are pro active. Some teachers in China bank all their official salary and live off their private tutoring jobs. This enables them to save around $12,000 u.s. dollars per year - not Middle East lucrative savings, but not bad, if you stay for a few years.
I have heard of some teachers in Shenzhen earning around $5000 u.s. dollars per month, between their base salaries and private tutoring, but I imagine to get that kind of money, those teachers would practically have to be working around the clock. I would think $3000 per month would be more attainable for many teachers in Shenzhen, which is not bad for China.
During the 'moon cake' one week holiday, I met two American lasses on the plane, coming back from Manila (Philippines), who told me that they could work all day tutoring kids, if they had the time, but they wanted to have a 'life' as well, so they kept their moonlighting jobs to a reasonable level....
Ghost in China |
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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:38 am Post subject: Re: salary update |
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[quote="ghost"]
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I have heard of some teachers in Shenzhen earning around $5000 u.s. dollars per month, between their base salaries and private tutoring, but I imagine to get that kind of money, those teachers would practically have to be working around the clock. I would think $3000 per month would be more attainable for many teachers in Shenzhen, which is not bad for China.
During the 'moon cake' one week holiday, I met two American lasses on the plane, coming back from Manila (Philippines), who told me that they could work all day tutoring kids, if they had the time, but they wanted to have a 'life' as well, so they kept their moonlighting jobs to a reasonable level....
Ghost in China |
$5000 USD per month works out to around 32,000 RMB. That's not that hard to achieve if you are good at scheduling private students. You don't have to work your tail off either. 4 private students per day at 300 RMB / hour (Mon - Fri) works out to an extra 24,000 RMB per month. Add to that a 'regular' job earning around 12,000 RMB and you are up to 36,000 RMB already. That's for 20 hours of teaching privates and perhaps an additional 15 - 20 hours for the main job. Keep the travel time under control (ideally the private students come to you) and that's quite manageable.
I have a similar setup in HK but at a much higher level. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:43 am Post subject: lucrative lucre in China |
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| Quote: |
| 4 private students per day at 300 RMB / hour (Mon - Fri) works out to an extra 24,000 RMB per month. |
300 RMB per hour sounds like a lot of money ($48) because that is the kind of money Middle East salaries are factored in. I am surprised that Chinese middle class parents can pay that much for tutoring, but they might go into debt trying to insure their progeny's future.
Here in the provinces, I charge a basic 150 per hour, and that is already pretty high, and I allow 2 students to cash in on that tuition fee, so many parents are paying just 75rmb per hour, which is still high, if you consider that most parents' jobs pay only around 3000 - 4000 rmb per month ($483 - $645) - such as the librarian mother who works at this university.
In Shenzhen, the rich Chinese parents (factory and company owners) can afford to pay 300 RMB per hour, but for the vast majority of Chinese parents that kind of cash would be too hard to come by, unless they are willing to go into debt, which, I guess, some of them are willing to do. It's all about education here and going on from there to a prosperous future.
I feel sorry for the kids, though, because if they have 'helicopter' mothers, watching their every move, and controlling every aspect of their lives, then they (the students') lives are not so jolly....for most kids, though, they might not realize this....for them - their lives are 'normal' - it is only if they have the chance to go to western countries, and see how children there have more balance in their lives, that they begin to question whether all this emphasis on gaining knowledge is worth it and sensible. Most of the students that I tutor, tell me that most of their classes are boring, especially the classes which are not skill specific, like Science and Math. Yesterday, even an English major at this university told me that she always brings a book to class, to read, during her humanities class, and the Chinese teacher either does not know what is going on, or does not care....
Ghost in China |
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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:05 am Post subject: Re: lucrative lucre in China |
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| ghost wrote: |
In Shenzhen, the rich Chinese parents (factory and company owners) can afford to pay 300 RMB per hour, but for the vast majority of Chinese parents that kind of cash would be too hard to come by, unless they are willing to go into debt, which, I guess, some of them are willing to do. It's all about education here and going on from there to a prosperous future.
Ghost in China |
This is something you have to factor into your calculations when deciding where to work. Obviously the top tier cities are the ones where tutors can command the highest rates. Even though only a small fraction of Chinese parents are 'wealthy', due to the sheer size of the population that still amounts to a LOT of people who can afford to pay the higher rates. |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:21 am Post subject: |
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I have heard of parents working a second job just to pay for their kid's language classes.
300 is pretty normal for Beijing....I could probably charge 400 if I really wanted to...maybe a bit more for something related to my graduate degree...but my main job kind of takes it out of me. To do a good job it's quite a bit of work.
We had a dad call who wanted to pay to have his kid live with us +_+. Chinese parents are crazy. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| hdeth wrote: |
| To do a good job it's quite a bit of work. |
Amen
Quite a bit of noise to signal: X ss per Y time x nWeeks=Big money with minimal effort!
On more than one thread. |
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Jmbf
Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| buravirgil wrote: |
| hdeth wrote: |
| To do a good job it's quite a bit of work. |
Amen
Quite a bit of noise to signal: X ss per Y time x nWeeks=Big money with minimal effort!
On more than one thread. |
Teaching (properly) is hard work. Tutoring is not if you set yourself up right. Tutoring is mostly reactive and doesn't require the same level of preparation and planning as normal teaching. I can prep for a full day of tutoring in 15 minutes (or less). That's partly down to the nature of tutoring and partly down to organisational skills. |
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