Job Discussion Forums

[Hod]

You're right, but the majority of graduates in the UK chose their undergraduate subject at the age of 18. Well, they partly chose during their A-Level choices at age 16.

No 18 year old will have their career mapped out, and how many of those will have made up their minds to teach?

Many people decide to teach years after university. It's unrealistic to think they will do another three years full time at university and then another year of teacher training. That path would only be for the super rich.

[santi84]

I take about 100 hours per year alone of professional development in working with ELL learners/speech delays, and I use those skills daily. Teaching adults and children are two completely different beasts, especially when you are not just a kindergarten songstress. If you feel that full teacher qualifications is too much time and money for the average former drunkard then fine, but you could say the same for any profession then.

I believe that a student teacher could learn much more from observing a qualified teacher or volunteering in a classroom for 100 hours than taking this certificate. That's just my humble opinion, as one of the few posters on Dave's who actually teaches YL full-time.

[Hod]

Ignoring the drunkard comment (do you think it was helpful by the way?), no one will disagree that a teacher with a directly relevant degree and PGCE will generally be better than a CELTA/DELTA.

But for the reasons above, don't you foresee a few problems if every teaching position had to be filled by someone who was born to teach or at least made up their mind to do so at 18?

I'll gloss over the part about a small number (or is it?) who teach because it was their only option. I'll also skip the stories about the level of morale amongst many teachers in the UK. What I will say is that your criteria would mean a lot of teacher shortages.

[AGoodStory]

[Xie Lin]

[Hod]

I was sitting at traffic lights today in my VW Polo when someone knocked on my window. It looked very much like Lewis Hamilton. It was him! He pointed out he was a properly-trained driver and had been driving since age 6. He then called me a drunkard (bit harsh) and said only people like him should be on the road.

OK, I made it all up. I wouldn't be seen dead in a Polo. Nor did I meet Lewis Hamilton. It was in fact (pause for effect) fully-trained teacher santi84. What an honour. Please pm for the location of this traffic light.

============

On a serious note, santi84, please could I ask where you teach and have taught? So far, this forum's been unanimous in its agreement that a fully-trained teacher will generally be better at classroom management and teaching of young learners than a CELTA/DELTA type.

When you head abroad, though, such fully-trained teachers will often work in international schools. They do a fine job, but they're catering for the elite and/or children of expats, i.e. a speck of a percentage of the population.

And where do you think the hoi polloi go for their English classes in less-than-developed countries? Imagine rote learning of the highest order of mundanity where the teachers themselves would barely possess the English language skills to order a Big Mac in the western world. I’m not talking war-torn Syria here, I mean places like the posher districts of Bangkok where the kids are dropped off for schools in BMWs.

You need to start that campaign for PGCE-qualified teachers to head off to teach in these middle-class enclaves. You know it makes sense. In the meantime, a whole bunch of CELTA/DELTA types will infest such places, often drunk, to impart false grammer [sic]. Only you, fully-trained, can stop this.

[Hod]

[santi84]

I posted a long response answering your questions, but I feel I don't wish to engage this.

Hod, let's make this clear: those old posts, where I recommended YL training, were before I researched it (registered, even) and then went back to university to upgrade my qualifications. I can't help but notice you left the date out. I've done additional K-12 certification and worked since early last year, so clearly, those are not recent posts.

I stand by my belief that I don't feel this course is worth it, and that people who teach children need more than that. I never claimed to be an expert, but I'd like to think that I have some experience in this subject. Just like other posters have their niche, I do too. I am entitled to change my opinion on a subject once I have actually worked/studied in the field.

Not going to debate this further, please feel free to sell this certificate. I'm off to work, and not wasting my weekend on someone trying to use former opinions against me. I don't see the point in that. No wonder I got PMs from people who don't agree with you - they are scared you'll attack too!

[santi84]

See above.

[santi84]

Wow, that post was from 2009, Hod. Whatever, be ridiculous. Moving on.

[Hod]

It's your prerogative to change your mind just as someone who studied, say, Geology in, say, 2009, can take a CELTA/DELTA/YL and be a decent teacher.

[AGoodStory]

Well, geez, Hod! This thread certainly shifted ground since I last visited yesterday! What was an enjoyable, lively difference of opinion turned into . . . this. Darn. I had been enjoying the disagreement, and the different opinions of various contributors until the shift to the personal.

[Mixal]

Have any of you guys actually taken this course? I wonder how it compares to full-time f2f CELTA...

[Hod]

No. I wanted to find out about it, the YL extension.

The f2f CELTA is the four-week course? I would imagine the YL extension is as intense, but the trainees should already have teaching skills.

[Mixal]

Yes, I think it's 4 weeks in most places.