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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| izmigari wrote: |
| The "average EFLer" itself tends to be parasitic. I mean why else does one even have to use the term "related-degree" if the majority were actually purpose-degreed professionals? |
Most EFLers are engaged in Commensal parasitism. This is not their choice, but the choice of the Saudi tribal culture. As for the Saudis the directives that come from above are just like you see in any Asian dictatorship (excluding the former South Korean dictatorship and post war Japan) worthless!! Obviously an ESL teacher with an English or English literature degree as a rule is going to be slightly elevated above all the others in ability. In Saudi Arabia this makes no difference, the system is botched through out. An ESL instructor with a TESOL degree is not going to be that much better than someone with a TESOL, TEFL, CELTA certificate. The difference between individuals with TESOL, TEFL, CELTA certificates and degrees will be a function of experience.
Keep in mind that every single school in Saudi Arabia would be closed down if it were in the US or Britian, Germany and France. In Britian and probably Germany the proprieters would be placed under arrest. The difficulties in teaching ESL to Saudis has never had anything to do with the teachers degree type, never. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| An agent recruits you and then hands you over to your employer. A subcontractor agrees to provide x number of teachers for Y days to Abdullah Bin Dojji Oil Company. He bills the oil company for a huge sum, keeps half and passes the rest on to his slaves (after deducting everything he can for tickets, housing and everything else). The less he pays his teachers, the more he has to spend on himself. |
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gregory999
Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 372
Location: 999
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| plumpy nut wrote: |
| Keep in mind that every single school in Saudi Arabia would be closed down if it were in the US orBritian, Germany and France. In Britian and probably Germany the proprieters would be placed under arrest. The difficulties in teaching ESL to Saudis has never had anything to do with the teachers degree type, never. |
Britian?
proprieters?
Now I understand why plumpy was sacked in the Magic Kingdom. 
I doubt if he is an English teacher with proper and genuine TESOL or whatever English degree??
As usual, plumpy plumps out the facts in his posts. |
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desertfox
Joined: 14 Jun 2015
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Plumpy Nut - Love the construction "commensul parasitism."
I have never thought of myself as a commensul parasite, but I am feeling more and more comfortable with it. I am seeing myself in a new light.
Just one comment on your contribution, an English Language/Literature Degree does make a difference in Saudi - at least it does at Kfupm.
I found this out in person only yesterday when I went there. I discovered that my application was rejected because my Masters Degree was "not relevant."
Moreover, the recruitment chap said had I done a "not relevant" Masters Degree full time, then that would have been acceptable, and I would have been offered the job.
But, I did it part-time (on campus, but part time - in the old days) so it did not meet the regulations of the "Higher Authorities" at Kfupm.
Why is life so complicated? |
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Pikgitina
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 420
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| plumpy nut wrote: |
| Keep in mind that every single school in Saudi Arabia would be closed down if it were in the US or Britian, Germany and France. |
Thanks for this. I'm going to use this in class tomorrow to help me with my lesson on the second conditional.
"Gents, please fill the gaps with a suitable noun, verb and pronoun. Let's see how many combinations we can come up with. You have 40 minutes. Work in pairs (natch)."
Keep in mind that every single _____ in Saudi Arabia would be ______ if _____ were in the US or Britian, Germany and France.
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Lord T
Joined: 07 Jul 2015
Posts: 285
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to scot47 for explaining the roles of agent and subcontractor.
An ex-colleague has just told me of a job currently advertised that requires candidates to first pass a 30-minute Skype interview with an agent who, if you are successful, passes you on to another agent for a 45-minute Skype interview.
Then, if you are successful, you will have an interview with a Saudi company. If they like you, you will be sent to work on their behalf at a college run by the TVTC.
No iqama - you have to do a visa run every month, and the money is around 14,000 Riyal per month.
Life is indeed complicated these days deserfox. |
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gregory999
Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 372
Location: 999
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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.. and life will be more complicated and risky if a candidate accepts to work in the Magic Kingdom without a proper Iqama and clean contract.
The Magic Kingdom is not for anybody! |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| desertfox wrote: |
Just one comment on your contribution, an English Language/Literature Degree does make a difference in Saudi - at least it does at Kfupm.
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There has been lots of comments about qualified teachers. In the West an individual with a say science degree is not going to have the teaching edge that a person with an English or English Literature degree would have for teaching English, and a science degree will not get you a job teaching English in the West, even if you're licensed. However the Saudis whose education is in shambles try to add legitimacy to their schools or try to look good with edicts and hiring qualifications that use an English teaching edge only in it's most shallow superficial aspect, it looks better on paper or makes the haughty, most of them good for nothing, students feel their education is legitimate. This is what I meant. Any English degree edge is obliterated by Saudi hypocrisy and stupidity. Anybody with some kind of a degree, and who is a native English speaker and a decent teacher can do the job fairly well, but once again there is the problem with the Saudis. All the experience and degrees most suitable make no difference if the Saudi student is only interested in whether or not you're a stand up guy. What an educational system, and really, who cares about these guys? That is to say after you're all finished and packed up with as much savings as you can glean off of them. That is commensalism, you get paid and though they get nothing (due to themselves), there is not enough teachers to really take away all that much in the way of resources and do any damage, they do the damage all by themselves. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| plumpy nut wrote: |
| There has been lots of comments about qualified teachers. In the West an individual with a say science degree is not going to have the teaching edge that a person with an English or English Literature degree would have for teaching English, and a science degree will not get you a job teaching English in the West, even if you're licensed. However the Saudis whose education is in shambles try to add legitimacy to their schools or try to look good with edicts and hiring qualifications that use an English teaching edge only in it's most shallow superficial aspect, it looks better on paper or makes the haughty, most of them good for nothing, students feel their education is legitimate. This is what I meant. Any English degree edge is obliterated by Saudi hypocrisy and stupidity. Anybody with some kind of a degree, and who is a native English speaker and a decent teacher can do the job fairly well, but once again there is the problem with the Saudis. All the experience and degrees most suitable make no difference if the Saudi student is only interested in whether or not you're a stand up guy. What an educational system, and really, who cares about these guys? That is to say after you're all finished and packed up with as much savings as you can glean off of them. That is commensalism, you get paid and though they get nothing (due to themselves), there is not enough teachers to really take away all that much in the way of resources and do any damage, they do the damage all by themselves. |
You've likely used the word "haughty" about a dozen times throughout this forum to describe the Saudis. Yet, in your umpteen diatribes against all things Saudi, haughtiness is clearly one of your character traits --- your ethnocentrism and sense of entitlement. Throw in hypocrisy as well since you were content to take the money your Saudi employer offered. Anyway, you've never mentioned if you're still in KSA, but I hope that's no longer the case. |
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