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mrpianoman
Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 171
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 Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:29 pm Post subject: no |
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| It's called making a false instrument in the UK and gaining pecuniary advantage by deception. There are a lot of degree mills though advertising so one would assume that there are enough fakes out there. As far as authentication is concerned, I think you just have to fill in a few forms and a medical questionnaire in the UK to gain your Z visa. You don't even need to show your degree to get the Z visa I believe. See this http://www.visarite.com/China_work_visa.htm The only thing is the foreign experts certificate. I am not sure if you need your a copy of your degree to get that |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:32 am Post subject: Re: no |
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| mrpianoman wrote: |
| It's called making a false instrument in the UK and gaining pecuniary advantage by deception. There are a lot of degree mills though advertising so one would assume that there are enough fakes out there. As far as authentication is concerned, I think you just have to fill in a few forms and a medical questionnaire in the UK to gain your Z visa. You don't even need to show your degree to get the Z visa I believe. See this http://www.visarite.com/China_work_visa.htm The only thing is the foreign experts certificate. I am not sure if you need your a copy of your degree to get that |
But even that generic US visa agent you linked to states the following under "How to authenticate Diploma and Transcript" (bolding mine):
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However, copies of student transcripts should be certified by the school and properly notarized before they can be authenticated. Only the school registrar, or other authorized school official, may certify that a transcript is a true copy of the original record in the school's possession.
You then need to send the notarized copy to Secretary of State office for authentication. Once you have obtained authentication from Secretary of State office, we can help you to obtain the authentication by Chinese Consulate. Law of each state may vary, please always check with your Secretary of State office Authentication Office for proper procedure first.
Source: http://www.visarite.com/auth_diploma.htm#.VxGA7Xri560 |
For authentications and attestations, US state notaries aren't likely to accept a university diploma that does not originate from the university registrar's office with the registrar's signed affidavit attached. This subject was discussed at length on New stringent resident permit rules coming into play this yr.
But again, unless you hold a bogus BA or have no degree at all, you have nothing to be concerned about. (Or maybe you do.  ) |
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mrpianoman
Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:23 am Post subject: no |
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| No, I have a legit degree. I had to notarise my degree recently in case I took a job in Korea and one notary said he would have to contact the university registrar to confirm it a 'true likeness' of the original. He was asking a high price to do this so I found another notary who did it for half the price in the end and he didn't contact the registrar but still signed it a true likeness (which it is). As it happens, I am working in Italy so no notary was needed in the end. The point is someone without a legit degree could possibly get away with fooling the second notary as I think some degree mills sign the degrees to look authentic. I don't know though as I don't need to use them. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| mrpianoman wrote: |
| The point is someone without a legit degree could possibly get away with fooling the second notary as I think some degree mills sign the degrees to look authentic. |
Perhaps that's the case in countries where a degree isn't a main requirement, but that's not the current process for authenticating degrees for China. As OhBudPowellWhereArtThou pointed out, it isn't about simply notarizing a BA.
Anyway, discussions about fake degrees aren't allowed within the forums. |
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mrpianoman
Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:05 am Post subject: no |
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| Point taken. So what's the difference between notarising and authenticating then? What do you have to do to get your degree authenticated? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| mrpianoman wrote: |
| Point taken. So what's the difference between notarising and authenticating then? |
Since you ask...
Notaries public (in the US) simply affirm that the person signing a document is who they say they are. For example, John Doe verifies his identity by showing the notary his drivers license. He then signs whatever document, and the notary subsequently affirms that the doc was signed in person by a signatory identified as John Doe. As such, John Doe's signature is validated but not the document's authenticity.
In the US, for authentication, the originator of the document (a university registrar, in this case) signs an affidavit attesting to the authenticity of the diploma/degree. For example, my US (replacement) diploma states the following on the back: "I, [registrar's name], University Registrar, certify that this a true copy of the original diploma presented to [my name] on [conferral date]." The registrar's signature was then notarized by a notary in registrations who witnessed him signing the diploma. The diploma then went to the state notary who attached a very official "certificate of authority" to my diploma which attests that the university notary is a registered, authorized notary public with the state. The certificate also mentions my "Degree of Master of Arts in Teaching" as the specific document. (This was done for a potential job in the UAE, not China. However, the authentication process is basically the same.)
Unless your BA is from the US, you'll have to follow the process for UK degree holders. |
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D. Amokachi
Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| jaybet3 wrote: |
Scam alert! Do any internet search on the topic (internship, scam, china) and you'll find all kinds of negative information.
I've been applying for jobs in China for the first time and spent many hours researching the obstacles. I suggest you do the same.
Keep looking. |
Can I just ask, in what way is it a scam? |
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mrpianoman
Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| It's the FCO (Foreign and Commonwealth office in the UK who validate the notaries. However, my notary did not witness my university registrar signing any copy of my degree, he just looked at the original degree and signed and stamped a colour photo copy of it. Therefore the authentication process is still fallable as no registrar becomes involved. I told you, one notary public could only validate the degree if he contacted the registrar but this one didn't do that and still signed it as a true likeness of the original. I think the notary DOES validate the degree in the UK and the FCO validate the notary is genuine. |
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mrpianoman
Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:52 am Post subject: o |
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| The only country I know of who use an actual registrar to confirm a degree in the UK is Saudi Arabia and possibly other gulf countries do as well. I don't sign anything for the notary either, he didn't verify my signature he verified my degree cert. That's what notaries in the UK do. |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:52 am Post subject: |
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How much did you pay for it all?
I will need to do this, I'm tempted to save time by going through a company and then going to the Chinese Embassy authentication place myself, I think it was like 70 quid. Plus 30 quid in the embassy and of course fare into London etc. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| mrpianoman wrote: |
It's the FCO (Foreign and Commonwealth office in the UK who validate the notaries. However, my notary did not witness my university registrar signing any copy of my degree, he just looked at the original degree and signed and stamped a colour photo copy of it. Therefore the authentication process is still fallable as no registrar becomes involved. I told you, one notary public could only validate the degree if he contacted the registrar but this one didn't do that and still signed it as a true likeness of the original. I think the notary DOES validate the degree in the UK and the FCO validate the notary is genuine.
....
The only country I know of who use an actual registrar to confirm a degree in the UK is Saudi Arabia and possibly other gulf countries do as well. I don't sign anything for the notary either, he didn't verify my signature he verified my degree cert. That's what notaries in the UK do. |
Again, I'm American, so I have no clue what the authentication process is in the UK. Besides, you previously stated that the above was for Korea and apparently, it wasn't done recently nor completely since you say you're presently working in Italy.
There's no one-size-fits-all rule; each country has its own requirements and/or process for authentication. For example, the UAE's greatly differs from KSA's, but my registrar was involved in both situations. In fact, that US visa agent you posted a link to indicates on their website that the Chinese consulate wants official transcripts notarized by the university registrar (and in a sealed envelope), which serves the same purpose as a photocopied diploma that bear's the registrar's original notarized signature.
The point is, a country's visa/immigration requirements and processes can and do change. China is no exception --- apparently effective for 2016. |
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