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Undocumented immigrant set to become certified teacher at 19
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asiannationmc



Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So federal funding flows freely even if you deny their policy?


States that do not observe policies or regulations (Such as DOT Helmet compliance) can have fed funding withdrawn/withheld....with DOT is was Highway Funds and a few states did refuse funding to be able to practice state rights in spite the threat of the feds

oh by the way, last month the Supreme Court’s split vote kind of killed any hope for the DAPA-isk imm-ingrate upholding a lower court ruling : the president does not have the constitutional authority to change immigration policy by decree.

Now those chillans who are attending school will have parents who will not be eligible for a temp job work permit and a safe zone from deportation.

To many in this position ..... their greatest fear that undocumented immigrant parents from Mexico, could be deported at any moment. But ask your self... isn't every criminal worried bout getting caught. Of course we often hear from illegals themselves, “It’s not fair and millions of lives are being affected by this.” To which I would answer, your parents arrival has already affected many lives and that was the results of an illegal act. Oh, this ruling will only block new applicants from applying for a similar initiative to expand DACA and shield parents of U.S. citizens under DAPA. That is likely why that news feature could be fawn over as an accomplishment of the downtrodden.

Podssibly the prez has broken the lw or at least directives by insisting that those qualified for DAPA and DACA were always considered low priority cases for deportation enforcement,

Another example of Rule of Law, I suppose, is where the president tells ya he couldn’t make you legal at the present, but you’ll be safe while you violate the law....
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Wolfsong



Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
It is in New Mexico. Smile

Regards,
John


And the difference is...?
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Wolfsong



Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
Wolfsong wrote:
The article seems deliberately confusing. On the one hand she is classed as an undocumented migrant but on the other she is allowed to graduate from high school and admits to being lots of help to get her associate degree. Plus she will get extra help for her teacher training. With all of this, she's hardly a migrant at all. Rolling Eyes I wonder if such help was given to American students fro equally poor backgrounds they wouldn't do equally well?

Don't get confused between immigration status and economics. For starters, the federal 2012 Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program provides people "brought to the US unlawfully as children with temporary work permits as long as they meet certain requirements." It doesn't guarantee citizenship but is intended to allow undocumented immigrants, like the young woman in the article, to legally work in the US without fear of deportation. In other words, it gives her and others with similar status the ability to contribute fully and equally to US society regardless of which occupation they pursue. Moreover, DACA is not a financial aid program; that assistance is coming through the TechTeach program, which doesn't consider immigration status in terms of educating prospective k-12 teachers to address the country's teacher-shortage issue.


I wasn't getting confused between immigration status and economics. It's not necessary for you to assume I am. My point stands. The student is getting a lot of help which she herself admits. Such help is not open to all American students from the same poor background. Therefore, she is being given an advantage others are not being given. This is clearly unfair and quite discriminatory and leads to the false impression that such 'undocumented migrants' (or whatever today's phrase is, which will probably be different tomorrow) are somehow needed because they are prepared to work hard which some US students are not. This is the implication. A wholly false one. Her lack of US citizenship is clearly not a barrier to her becoming a teacher due to the help which she has been given and enables her to occupy a place which cold have gone to a US citizen.
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Wolfsong



Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wangdaning wrote:
The federal government is refusing to control immigration. An immigrant, if they came as a child can illegally compete in the state because the DHS (Dept of Homeland Security) said so. The DACA is not a law, it is a policy of the federal government. If a local area decides to deny it they will lose all funding for their schools.

I would call it blackmail personally.


It certainly seems that way.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfsong wrote:
I wasn't getting confused between immigration status and economics. It's not necessary for you to assume I am. My point stands. The student is getting a lot of help which she herself admits. Such help is not open to all American students from the same poor background. Therefore, she is being given an advantage others are not being given.

You're basing that "fact" on which evidence?

TechTeach, the teacher-education program helping this young woman and other prospective teachers, states the following on Texas Tech University's website:
    "The College of Education scholarships are supported by over sixty endowments and gifts given to the college to help support our students. Our College of Education scholarship office awarded over $400,000 in scholarships for the 2014-2015 academic year. We also offer a large number of scholarships specifically for TechTeach candidates in their second semester of student teaching. TechTeach scholarships are awarded based on need and performance during their early semesters in the program." Source: http://www.depts.ttu.edu/education/undergraduate/future.php
No mention of citizenship status, which US institutes of higher ed don't consider for admissions anyway. Plus, financial aid in the form of grants, scholarships, and loans are also offered via the university from various sources --- typical of just about every university/college in the US. (Heck, they wouldn't turn you away if you were interested in the program and met the university's academic requirements.)
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Wolfsong



Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
Wolfsong wrote:
I wasn't getting confused between immigration status and economics. It's not necessary for you to assume I am. My point stands. The student is getting a lot of help which she herself admits. Such help is not open to all American students from the same poor background. Therefore, she is being given an advantage others are not being given.

You're basing that "fact" on which evidence?


On the article posted and what she herself said in the article. What else?
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Wolfsong



Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:


No mention of citizenship status, which US institutes of higher ed don't consider for admissions anyway.


Did anyone claim they did? No. However, none of what you say invalidates my point.

nomad soul wrote:
Plus, financial aid in the form of grants, scholarships, and loans are also offered via the university from various sources --- typical of just about every university/college in the US. (Heck, they wouldn't turn you away if you were interested in the program and met the university's academic requirements.)


If this is such a normal event, why is this student being lauded as something special and the article treating this as something unusual?
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adventious



Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 237
Location: In the wide

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfsong wrote:
Such help is not open to all American students from the same poor background.
Therefore, she is being given an advantage others are not being given.
Therefore may sound rational and conclusive, but NS' point is in a country that does not observe a National Registry, only an official Census of its number, many allocated resources do not require "proof" of citizenship and the "help" for which this woman has qualified is one such example.

No one was denied resources because this woman qualified for them.

Your argument is one of zero-sum or scarcity and has more in common with scapegoating than policy analysis.
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Wolfsong



Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adventious wrote:
Wolfsong wrote:
Such help is not open to all American students from the same poor background.
Therefore, she is being given an advantage others are not being given.
Therefore may sound rational and conclusive, but NS' point is in a country that does not observe a National Registry, only an official Census of its number, many allocated resources do not require "proof" of citizenship and the "help" for which this woman has qualified is one such example.


For most people the word "therefore" simply means as a consequence of... You appear to be reading some other meaning into it. I don't understand why you find it necessary to explain another person's point. Don't you think that person is capable of explaining it themselves? Even so, I will address the point you reinterpreted on behalf of the OP: despite not having a Registry and only a Census, resources are being allocated in areas which include benefiting 'undocumented migrants' (or to use what is deemed by the PC language police, un-PC terms such as "economic migrants"). [b]Therefore (as a consequence of), resources being finite, there are citizens who are not benefiting from those same resources which economic migrants are. This is my point and one which I thought was very clear.


adventious wrote:
No one was denied resources because this woman qualified for them.


This would only be true in the narrowest possible sense. Most people do not view such things in such a narrow way.

adventious wrote:
Your argument is one of zero-sum or scarcity and has more in common with scapegoating than policy analysis.


No it is not based on zero-sum or scarcity but by the recognition that resources are finite, not infinite. That you try to connect my argument with scapegoating rather than what it is, shows a lack of understanding of the argument, together with not understanding policy analysis, despite a desire to appear as having it.
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adventious



Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 237
Location: In the wide

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes

Where's that PC Parrot member? I miss them right now.
You are simply denying one set of semantics to assert another.
You are making a zero-sum argument, but prefer the descriptors of finite and infinite.

The policies and procedures by which republics allocate resources is a compromise of principles; Policy works within constraints. Learning why immigrant status hasn't been made a priority in higher education, the culture and traditions of that evolution, is a matter you'd prefer to defer because ignorance reinforces itself this way.

Simply identifying a category of recipient and asserting their inclusion denies others is facile and conjectures in terms of regulation you can neither describe nor name.

And why is that? Because the world is "stacked" against some other category of recipient?
Because vast conspiracies are afoot to change the nature of a golden age of government in which only the deserving were served?

There is simply no agency to enforce the fair allocation you'd prefer with its requisite database, design thereof, administration, security procedures, weighted variables, and on and on.

From your armchair, a conclusion that undocumented immigrants (or illegal immigrants if you prefer) should be denied x and y resources/privileges might have an appeal, but no implementation other than authoritarian edicts contrary to little things like The Constitution and The Bill of Rights.

But that's nothing new.

And I think you're either willfully ignorant or disingenuous. You're likely old enough to know scholarships, programs, etc., must be actively sought as well as knowledge of their schedule, qualifying criteria, etc.

Monies are made available and people apply-- what measures ensure they're pursued by the greatest number of people for the best possible reasons is missing a criterion you'd prefer it didn't-- end of story.

Your argument is one of many bullies before and it's shameful.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear wangdaning,

For your edification, a history of executive orders:


"Heavy use of EOs is only with the most recent 3-4 presidents."

Nope, not at all. FDR, Hoover, and Wilson issued the most, by a long shot, compared to Obama, George W. Bush, Clinton, and George H.W. Bush. In fact, Harrison, Cleveland, and McKinley all issued more executive orders than Obama has. Please see the chart by clicking on the link.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/every-presidents-executive-actions-in-one-chart/

"An executive order is not a law, it is an order. They have the "force" of law, but that does not make them law."

May the Force be with you. Having the force of law is good enough for me.

Still awaiting your example(s) of a local area deciding to deny it. Or is it a non-problem? Very Happy

Regards,
John
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wangdaning



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=local+areas+denying+executive+orders

I am not your student and not trying to prove anything. You can deny it but you are only fooling yourself.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Where's that PC Parrot member? I miss them right now.


Pretty sure PC Parrot is/was a singular entity. Wink
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear wandaning,

And thank goodness you're not my student. You were totally wrong about this:

"Heavy use of EOs is only with the most recent 3-4 presidents."

But refuse to accept facts.

Regards,
John
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adventious



Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 237
Location: In the wide

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
Pretty sure PC Parrot is/was a singular entity. Wink
non-gendered pronoun Cool
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