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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
But guv, it is tough, innit ? Not all native speakers have the level of articulacy expected !
That is why we introduce the strange concept of "the educated native speaker" - to exclude the 'Sun' readers ! |
The native speaker level candidates who don't get a nine are usually the stroppy teenager types who think it's OK to give one word answers and screw the test up for themselves. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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The ones I met in the UK were the plumbers who wanted to go to Canada whose reading material was normally restricted to the TV pages of the tabloids.
I did come across some spotty teens in Bahrain who were supposedly bilingual but in fact turned out to be alingual. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| The ones I met in the UK were the plumbers |
My brother's a plumber, and I kid ye not, it's a better career than TEFL. He has no boss and is about to retire in his early 50s.
Speaking-wise, he's far more lucid than me, a so-called ex-teacher. But he's not had much need to write 250 words on the benefits of nuclear power or whatever within 40 minutes. He must be a dimwit, right?
The fact native speakers need to take an IELTS test to help gain a visa to countries such as Australia shows that IELTS itself is inflexible and outdated. I can tell within ten seconds if someone is a native English speaker. The fact that the IELTS organisation has not come up with an alternative grading method for native speakers in all these years shows how antiquated they are. |
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adventious
Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 237
Location: In the wide
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
| A native speaker should be able to get a 9 in the speaking test every time, if they're able to give full answers to questions. |
| Hod wrote: |
| I can tell within ten seconds if someone is a native English speaker. The fact that the IELTS organisation has not come up with an alternative grading method for native speakers in all these years shows how antiquated they are. |
You seem not to understand what proficiency measures do. They're not binary, nor a matter of L1. Metrics aren't convenient to your sense of their purpose. And it's not like there aren't resources for you to learn about it. But I'll say your impressions are not uncommon and are likely addressed in courses at the outset: Misapprehensions About X. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| adventious wrote: |
| bograt wrote: |
| A native speaker should be able to get a 9 in the speaking test every time, if they're able to give full answers to questions. |
| Hod wrote: |
| I can tell within ten seconds if someone is a native English speaker. The fact that the IELTS organisation has not come up with an alternative grading method for native speakers in all these years shows how antiquated they are. |
You seem not to understand what proficiency measures do. They're not binary, nor a matter of L1. Metrics aren't convenient to your sense of their purpose. And it's not like there aren't resources for you to learn about it. But I'll say your impressions are not uncommon and are likely addressed in courses at the outset: Misapprehensions About X. |
You definitely wouldn't get a 9 |
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adventious
Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 237
Location: In the wide
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
| You definitely wouldn't get a 9 |
When you're prepared to engage in good faith and address your own claims in terms of how they might be supported and not merely asserted, some progress is possible.
It may be inconvenient to a self-styled expertise, but normative- and criterion-based measures are a discipline and industry with traditions and best practices. After having provided an alternative to the endeavors and enterprise of many, many people, feel free to patent it and make a billion dollars. |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:32 am Post subject: |
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Well, got rejected. More "qualified people" get to do the training.
Hmm. I have been in TEFL for 20 years.
Work as an examiner for two kinds of speaking tests.
But I am American.
Really, what is more qualified? |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| They had related master's degrees or DELTAs or something concrete, I'd assume. 20 years of experience isn't any guarantee that you've been doing it 'well,' especially if you haven't kept up with the Joneses in terms of concrete paper qualifications. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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They were loyal subjects of Her Britannic Majesty, Elizabeth by the Grace of God.........., whereas you are a follower of George Washington and those other rebellious colonists.
I was accepted as an IELTS examiner but my bolshy attitude rubbed the Admin Wallahs up the wrong way. I found better things to do with my time.
Last edited by scot47 on Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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spanglish
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 742
Location: working on that
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| mitsui wrote: |
Well, got rejected. More "qualified people" get to do the training.
Hmm. I have been in TEFL for 20 years.
Work as an examiner for two kinds of speaking tests.
But I am American.
Really, what is more qualified? |
More likely those with inside connections or who already worked for the testing agency as teachers were first in line.
Get hired on as a teacher at a British Council or other agency that does IELTS if you are desperate enough to get trained up. |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Not desperate, just looking for part-time work.
Usually paid testing in Japan is irregular (just a few times a year).
I know someone who does this at the British Council in Tokyo and she suggested I try this.
This outfit just seemed odd. They started in July. The trainer had to do an interview on Skype and was out of the country. Can't get one in Japan?
He has to fly to Tokyo today for the weekend training. He works in Korea which tells me that demand for IELTS is much higher there. Far more Koreans study abroad than Japanese, even though Japan has 126 million people compared to 49 million.
This month they were short of teachers, now they have too many.
They paid the fee to IDP, which is in Australia. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| spanglish wrote: |
| mitsui wrote: |
Well, got rejected. More "qualified people" get to do the training.
Hmm. I have been in TEFL for 20 years.
Work as an examiner for two kinds of speaking tests.
But I am American.
Really, what is more qualified? |
More likely those with inside connections or who already worked for the testing agency as teachers were first in line.
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This is true in countries where BC employees can test but not so in others e.g. Hong Kong where they work Saturday and Sunday. There is no nationality bias in hiring but they do ask for CELTA or equiv as minimum. Most people outside the BC applying will need more than that. Yes there are a lot of rules about testing which might seem petty and it can damage the egos of a lot of teachers when they get told what to do by an IELTS assistant of usually student age. |
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spanglish
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 742
Location: working on that
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| For whatever it's worth I very much enjoyed the work, especially the technical and analytical parts of the marking. Pay isn't great, but it's decent for a poor teacher type and can be a much-needed diversion from the grind of teaching. |
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Tudor
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| spanglish wrote: |
| For whatever it's worth I very much enjoyed the work, especially the technical and analytical parts of the marking. Pay isn't great, but it's decent for a poor teacher type and can be a much-needed diversion from the grind of teaching. |
Well, that depends on what your centre pays and how much you examine. In a busy month I can earn more than USD 2000 from examining - not bad for a part-time gig (and, no, I don't consider myself a 'poor teacher type').
I can't say I particularly enjoy it, but it's far easier money than teaching. No prep and no annoying/difficult/demanding students to deal with; it's just dull, tedious work, but for as long as the money keeps rolling in then I'll keep doing it.
Oh, and I work alongside Americans, so I don't think the OPs nationality had any bearing on the decision not to hire him/her. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| Tudor wrote: |
| spanglish wrote: |
| For whatever it's worth I very much enjoyed the work, especially the technical and analytical parts of the marking. Pay isn't great, but it's decent for a poor teacher type and can be a much-needed diversion from the grind of teaching. |
Well, that depends on what your centre pays and how much you examine. In a busy month I can earn more than USD 2000 from examining - not bad for a part-time gig (and, no, I don't consider myself a 'poor teacher type').
I can't say I particularly enjoy it, but it's far easier money than teaching. No prep and no annoying/difficult/demanding students to deal with; it's just dull, tedious work, but for as long as the money keeps rolling in then I'll keep doing it.
Oh, and I work alongside Americans, so I don't think the OPs nationality had any bearing on the decision not to hire him/her. |
I think he was just showing off with that comment. Considering as you say it doesn't involve any preparation and pays over 40 quid an hour at the current exchange rate IELTS examining is good money by most people's standards. |
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