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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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 Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Surely what the OP is bringing to the table is relevant.
The thing that is lacking is 'experience' and a basic level uni job is a good low-risk way of making a start.
Also think 'package'.
You would think of rewards additional to weekly pay if you were offered a job at home, so why not here?
The 10 or so people that started Ali Baba worked for bus fare + SHARE OPTIONS.
That original group are all now billionaires.
OP check the 'Job Offer Checklist' thread. |
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Karl B
Joined: 15 Jan 2017
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Oral (conversational) English is great as there are no papers to grade.
BUT what you have is the need to mark continuously.
So don't drift through the first few weeks thinking this is a doddle and then wake up to the fact that you have no achievement data.
The minimum resource would be a book of dialogues. Probably crap but it's a start.
I would ask about class size and freshers or sophomores etc.
Remember freshers are straight from high school and the dreaded Gao Kao.
There is no Oral test in GK so students may be a bit slow at first.
Also for freshers this is their first year away from home among unfamiliar classmates. Greater awareness of opposite gender kicks in big time.
On balance and IMHO, this offer is a better gig to get you started than a language school.
If you take it get back to me and I'll send you a resource I developed to mark Oral.
Best
NS |
Thanks for the advice mate.
Would you have a go-to book of dialogues or text book?
I'll definitely get back to you about that oral marking resource.
Cheers |
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Karl B
Joined: 15 Jan 2017
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Teaching at a University as a beginner + Salary opinion |
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| danshengou wrote: |
| Karl B wrote: |
They are offering me a salary of 7000 RMB per month plus a 2 bedroom apartment and return flights to Australia once a year |
That is $1000 a month, which is what a part-time janitor makes, plus the janitor doesn't need to fly home every year. |
Take a guess at what a Janitor in China makes... |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Take a guess at what a Janitor in China makes...
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danshengou
Joined: 17 Feb 2016
Posts: 434
Location: A bizarre overcrowded hole
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Take a guess at what a Janitor in China makes...
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I was referring to the first world, where presumably the OP is from. |
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backtochina2017
Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry,dude, but no matter what you ask, and no matter how honest the recruiter, no matter how clear the school contract, you won't know the truth until you arrive. |
I am not sure what specifically you are referring to, but yes the school will have textbooks already determined. You can request the ISBN number so you can prepare before the semester starts. If you teach with a program like GAC, they have module textbooks you can get before they come the first day.
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| No need to write the students' names in Hanyu? |
Yes. You misread the intent of that statement. I am not stating you shouldn't know the pronunciation. I am stating you don't need to physically write down 40+ students by hand. You can if you want, but getting an .xls spreadsheet saves not only time and hassle but you can modify the fields later when students shift classes second semester.
I put students into groups. It's a lot easier to move cell and print than write over again a list.
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| No need for attendance" Pfffft |
Again, you are misreading my statements. I am not saying don't take attendance, but you don't have to call out everyone's name every day before starting class. Call on each student to participate and while they think of an answer you check off their name. It saves time.
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| Every school where I have taught has been concerned about attendance. |
The schools I have taught at don't really care about attendance. For the teacher, they need to know who had what lessons. So, attendance is important. I even got basically fired because I refused to submit a few grades for lack of attendance by certain students. The school just wanted me to pass them so they could transfer to another school, and since their rich snobby parents paid for their prince or princess and since I got paid regularly I "owed" them a grade.
The only time I have had schools talk to me about attendance is when parents of kids come and see less than expected numbers. Or, the opposite, I am not spending enough time with their prince or princess.
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| If the monitor isn't trustworthy, you can ask a trustworthy student to check the attendance if the head count is off. |
I have found this pits the student against their peers. I had one girl who was more proficient than the rest of the class talk to me in the hall because she wanted to practice for a singing competition. If I said no, she would have gotten the brunt of it from the students who were using her to negotiate free time. So, I never make a student "slave" for the day or semester. I might initially call on certain students early on to get things started, but I don't expect them to perform as my personal assistant while I am in the class and should be doing the job as teacher.
Students don't know who I might play "favorites" with. They must individually be accountable. If you don't show up, chances are you won't show up again again and again. It's not rocket science when a kid asks to go to the WC and comes back 30 minutes later all sweaty and holding a basketball or a soccer ball.
After a month or so, you can see students trickle in and ID them as they come in. Use that time for deciding how you will start the lesson. If members of one group are late, you will need to re-explain when they come. Taking attendance twice is not only unnecessary, but it achieves no purpose.
Be attentive in class instead. That's more important. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:03 am Post subject: |
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I am not sure what specifically you are referring to, but yes the school will have textbooks already determined. You can request the ISBN number so you can prepare before the semester starts. If you teach with a program like GAC, they have module textbooks you can get before they come the first day.
There may be textbooks, but it isn't likely that anyone will even know what an ISBN is, and surely, any requests for any identifying title or number will go unanswered. This is because in most cases, the department isn't sure how many FTs will be teaching in any given semester. I have NEVER been told what I'll teach ahead of time and I have never had the time to prepare lessons any farther ahead than two or three days, even when I have remained at the school for two or more years.
I'm glad that backtochina2017 has been accorded such niceties. I haven't met an FT who worked for a Chinese public university who has.
Maybe there's hope for FTs in Chinese universities after all. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| Karl B wrote: |
| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Oral (conversational) English is great as there are no papers to grade.
BUT what you have is the need to mark continuously.
So don't drift through the first few weeks thinking this is a doddle and then wake up to the fact that you have no achievement data.
The minimum resource would be a book of dialogues. Probably crap but it's a start.
I would ask about class size and freshers or sophomores etc.
Remember freshers are straight from high school and the dreaded Gao Kao.
There is no Oral test in GK so students may be a bit slow at first.
Also for freshers this is their first year away from home among unfamiliar classmates. Greater awareness of opposite gender kicks in big time.
On balance and IMHO, this offer is a better gig to get you started than a language school.
If you take it get back to me and I'll send you a resource I developed to mark Oral.
Best
NS |
Thanks for the advice mate.
Would you have a go-to book of dialogues or text book?
I'll definitely get back to you about that oral marking resource.
Cheers |
Ideally a book of dialogues will be supplied as a class set. Otherwise you will have a book and be faced with mega photocopying.
Accordingly the simple basic question to ask the school is:
'Do the students have a book of dialogues?'
Remember you are going to have 2 or maybe 3 students come to the front to recite the dialogue. Therefore it should be long enough* to warrant the hassle and of course give you a chance to focus on each of the students.
The dialogues are not an end in themselves but to give the students confidence so that they move to unaided English conversation over the semester.
* This is one of my criticisms of New Interchange. The dialogues are not long enough to give the teacher a chance to zero in on how an individual is progressing.
A former student told me recently that the normal dialogues in Chinese publications annoyed her. When I asked 'Why?' she said they invariably set scenes of Chinese speaking English in China. She wanted to see dialogues that showed Chinese speakers of English using the language to communicate in Western settings.
Couldn't argue with that! |
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backtochina2017
Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
I am not sure what specifically you are referring to, but yes the school will have textbooks already determined. You can request the ISBN number so you can prepare before the semester starts. If you teach with a program like GAC, they have module textbooks you can get before they come the first day.
There may be textbooks, but it isn't likely that anyone will even know what an ISBN is, and surely, any requests for any identifying title or number will go unanswered. |
That is the fault of the teacher for not asking. Students even take out their cell phones and take a picture of postings on the wall instead of getting copies. When I post dates for exams and papers, same thing.
"I have NEVER been told what I'll teach ahead of time and I have never had the time to prepare lessons any farther ahead than two or three days, even when I have remained at the school for two or more years."
That's weird, we have opposite experiences. When I show up weeks before the first day, I am told to send an email to show my lesson plans. If it is a university, they want me to provide a syllabus for the following semester on what I want to teach.
I would NEVER sign a contract without discussing what I would be teaching. No one should go blindly into a work environment not knowing what they are going to teach.
Now, if you are talking about lying, yes it is rampant. You will get a recruiter promising you middle school/high school classes and when you show up for the interview with the school, there is a big central room with pastel colored small chairs for 4-6 year olds.
It's not that hard to flip a book over and see the letters ISBN. If your school can't recite those letters back to you, you aren't talking to any English department or competent employer. |
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backtochina2017
Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
I am not sure what specifically you are referring to, but yes the school will have textbooks already determined. You can request the ISBN number so you can prepare before the semester starts. If you teach with a program like GAC, they have module textbooks you can get before they come the first day.
I'm glad that backtochina2017 has been accorded such niceties. I haven't met an FT who worked for a Chinese public university who has. |
It is not a nicety, nor was I "accorded" with anything. It was an expectation by the school to the teacher. Sometimes they use this to see which teacher will work the most so they can exhaust them.
OhBudPowellWhereAreThou, you need to re-evaluate your position on this. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| My experience matches Bud's over 3 public vocationals and full scale (4yr) universities. |
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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:08 am Post subject: |
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I'm currently at a good university in my city, well known and "top tier", project 985 or 211, can't remember.
They still couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery.
Point about books, when I was interviewing with them I made it clear I wanted 'oral English classes only', it's written in my contract I teach 'oral English'. Yet one week before I'm due to start teaching, plane ticket bought, everything organized, I get a message saying they've given me a writing course. Too late to turn around and find a new job now so I suck it up.
This is a transcript of our conversation:
Me: Do you have a textbook for me to use in class?
Them: Yes, it's 'XXXX, 2003'.
Me: Ok, do you have a copy I could see before class?
Them: No.
Me: Do the students have copies?
Them: No, they don't.
Me: Ok, does the university library have a copy?
Them: No. 'The bear', could you look online and find the PDF, then we you can give it to the students.
Great start...
Then after I landed in China, for my Oral English classes, I was given 4 days to create the 'syllabus'. I had to submit PPTs, lesson plants, and a course description. That course didn't have a textbook, I was told 'you can look online'. The things I submitted were barely sufficient, I made skeleton PPTs and crude lesson plans, but what can they expect in 4 days?
Point is, I had accepted this job in April/May, they had months to inform me. Instead, they waited until 4 days I was due to start teaching to tell me.
Anther thing, sorry this post is dragging, for the first 11 weeks of teaching the Oral English class I was given a computer room with no projector. With divisions between desks/students. So if a student wanted to talk to the person next to them, they had to lean back around the divider. When I asked if there was another room available, I was told 'no, sorry the university is having an inspection and we can't give you another room'. It was frustrating going to classes and seeing much better rooms empty.
It's now February the 9th, classes start February the 20th. I do not know my timetable, what I'm teaching, or where I'm teaching.
Don't get me wrong, I like this job, it's a relaxing job (when in China you have to roll with things), but organizational ability is not a strong suit. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Yr exp seems to match OBPWAY's and mine.
I never had the bait and switch of agreed Oral for Writing. That's insult to the existing injury.
Best |
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LarssonCrew
Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:47 am Post subject: |
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One reason I gave up university teaching. It's just a money maker for the university.
Unless you're on a dual program [maybe 2 + 2] you're just seen as bottom of the barrel.
They'd often cancel my classes for other events, and only tell me when I got there.
At least your uni seem to care, but it's always in the wrong areas. They want a course outline and ppts, great, but give the teacher adequate time to prepare, and pay them properly.
It's a joke when you're expected to come up with your own materials for 5000 a month. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| LarssonCrew wrote: |
One reason I gave up university teaching. It's just a money maker for the university.
Unless you're on a dual program [maybe 2 + 2] you're just seen as bottom of the barrel.
They'd often cancel my classes for other events, and only tell me when I got there.
At least your uni seem to care, but it's always in the wrong areas. They want a course outline and ppts, great, but give the teacher adequate time to prepare, and pay them properly.
It's a joke when you're expected to come up with your own materials for 5000 a month. |
How do you maintain residency with no employer of record? |
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