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currentaffairs
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828
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 Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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I would probably do a standard TEFL course if you are a bit short of money. Do a residential or face-to-face course and not online. I would also look at the CertTESOL offered by Trinity College. It is usually a little cheaper than the CELTA and as highly respected.
If there is only a few hundred pounds difference between the cheaper TEFL course and the CertTESOL then go for the latter. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| tellersquill wrote: |
| I wonder why so many people fail then? |
Most don't fail the course.
Check out the following: |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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The application process to get on to a CELTA course should include a written exercise you do at home in your own time and an interview. The written exercise isn't overly challenging, but it lets you know some swatting up would be a good idea.
CELTA centres don't want to fail people, so if an interview candidate really came across as hopeless, they may not even get on the course. The TEFL course you mentioned might not be so concerned and accept anyone.
As for the CELTA itself, if you're falling behind, the trainers will let you know and give you plenty of warning. I doubt anyone's ever failed totally unexpectedly. A lot of people take umbrage with CELTA trainers and spend the four weeks arguing. Rightly or wrongly, these are the sort of people who might have problems. Most CELTA trainers are great, but some think they're god. Remember it's only four weeks, and you'll never see them again.
p.s. I never give unsubstantiated advice. I did the CELTA in the UK in 2000 with a pass and only one argument. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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The application process to get on to a CELTA course should include a written exercise you do at home in your own time and an interview. The written exercise isn't overly challenging, but it lets you know some swatting up would be a good idea.
CELTA centres don't want to fail people, so if an interview candidate really came across as hopeless, they may not even get on the course. The TEFL course you mentioned might not be so concerned and accept anyone.
As for the CELTA itself, if you're falling behind, the trainers will let you know and give you plenty of warning. I doubt anyone's ever failed totally unexpectedly. A lot of people take umbrage with CELTA trainers and spend the four weeks arguing. Rightly or wrongly, these are the sort of people who might have problems. Most CELTA trainers are great, but some think they're god. |
Actually, this response would indicate seem to that you've been a CELTA trainer. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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As I always say, I only give substantiated advice, whilst others on this thread have previously dismissed such short courses, having never taken the CELTA/TESOL, in favour of longer courses. And yet, they now seem happy to offer CELTA advice to a young and potentially new teacher here.
I'd offer an opinion that teaching in Vietnam directly after graduating makes little sense. The money will be rubbish as will your CV afterwards. What will you do next? How will you save for the future? What transferable skills will teaching in Vietnam offer? However, for the sake of this thread, I'm qualified to offer advice as a CELTA holder.
If I've been a CELTA trainer or trainer, it must've been in a previous life. If I'd held such a position, I'd be happy to offer appropriate advice, but as I haven't, I do the decent thing and stick to what I know. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| tellersquill wrote: |
My plan is to do a PGCE in two or three years and then work in international schools.
I've spoken to people in Vietnam who earn £1,400 per month and yet only spend £600 per month to live off. Based on this they can save close to £800 per month (some do and some do not). If I saved up that much I could afford a holiday a year and also afford to study for a PGCE in the UK in two years. Plus, I will get loads of classroom experience.
I just need to figure out if the celta or the tefl is the most cost effective over a two year plan. |
The CELTA will help you compete for entry-level TEFL jobs since other job seekers will likely apply with the same.
Be very careful basing what you think you'd earn (as a newbie EFL teacher) from what others claim to make. You don't know their specific qualifications and amount of experience, teaching context, how many hours they work, etc. In other words, know what your bottom line is -- the least you will need to earn to pay your living expenses and debts while meeting your savings goal.
Also... Two years is not considered long-term teaching. And the "loads of classroom experience" you'll show on your CV may not be of the quality others expect you to have once you leave VN. Rather than making a long-term plan based on your expectations, evaluate your qualifications from: 1) the perspective of TEFL and international school job trends; 2) employers' requisite quals and experience as stated in actual job ads for international school positions that interest you; and 3) the admission requirements per your university PGCE program.
You might get some useful info from Regret not getting PGCE/K-12 sooner?
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Whether to take the CELTA or TEFL? |
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| tellersquill wrote: |
| I just need to figure out if the celta or the tefl is the most cost effective over a two year plan. |
Then look at the market.
While it is most recognized the CELTA is not a requirement to teach EFL in Vietnam. A TEFL / TESOL / TESL course of some kind is (along with a Bachelor degree and the correct flavor of passport).
Truth be told, employers in the region DO NOT CARE what brand of TEFL certificate you have.
They only care that you have one since having one is a visa requirement.
The employer requirement is a "Native speaker with a white face" (yes, racial discrimination is alive, well and legal).
The 100 hour on-line and 20 hour F-F course was developed for the Korean market since the requirement to work in a government school there is a 120 hour course with 20 hours or more F-F.
Thailand does NOT require a TEFL certification but does require the police check and a Bachelor degree.
China requires a TEFL and a Bachelor degree.
Korea requires a Bachelor degree and a TEFL cert is required for work in government schools but not in private schools or language academies.
Taiwan requires a degree to work in a language center but a PGCE to work in public schools.
Cambodia has few requirements other than the cash to pay for a visa.
Myanmar likes to see a TEFL cert but you need to get repeat 70-day work/business visas from outside the country (visa runs are a necessity).
Indonesia requires a degree in English.
So look at the market. Each one is different. Get what you need for the country / region you want to work in rather than what is suggested based on brand names or what is common in other parts of the world.
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JoThomas
Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 148
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:57 am Post subject: Re: Whether to take the CELTA or TEFL? |
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^Great information!
I think the CELTA would be good for the OP, as it would give him some practical teaching experience and I think it is a more intense and thorough course than quick TEFL course. If the OP is interested in teaching YL's, he can take the add on YL course as well.
| santi84 wrote: |
| tellersquill wrote: |
| santi84 wrote: |
| tellersquill wrote: |
| I begin to see a lot of people mention the CELTA and they all note that it is the most respected ESL course. |
Let's clarify this perception ^.
First off, there is no worldwide accreditation for a certificate to teach ESL/EFL. Some countries (like Canada) have national standards, but globally, there's nothing to say that XYZ is the "most respected".
Many certificates are only one-month long and some come with a "name brand" status, such as CELTA. It is a common certificate with fairly rigorous standards for one-month of study and most employers will know what it is. Other certificates vary drastically in quantity/quality of teaching hours. Some are much longer and intensive, many others are worth toilet paper in terms of education.
I hesitate to say that a CELTA will bring you "higher wages" because really, a one-month is just a few weeks, right? It's not necessarily a qualification that results in a substantial upgrade. A lot of teachers have postgrad certificates or degrees in TESL/TESOL and have never bothered with a CELTA (I'm in that camp).
I guess my answer to your original question is "a CELTA is good, there are others that are fine too; if you want to make this a long-term career and want higher wages/better work, it will take more than entry-level certificates but that's a topic you can revisit later". |
My plan is to do a PGCE in two or three years and then work in international schools.
I've spoken to people in Vietnam who earn £1,400 per month and yet only spend £600 per month to live off. Based on this they can save close to £800 per month (some do and some do not). If I saved up that much I could afford a holiday a year and also afford to study for a PGCE in the UK in two years. Plus, I will get loads of classroom experience.
I just need to figure out if the celta or the tefl is the most cost effective over a two year plan. |
Well, you'd be best off by asking the Vietnam forum. Here in Canada, your CELTA or TEFL wouldn't make a difference (quite frankly, neither of them would net you any work). In Vietnam, the rule may be completely different (as I suspect it is but I can't confirm), perhaps a cheaper TEFL is just fine. Aside from cost, you also want to make sure that you take a certificate that well help you learn how to actually teach with basic skills. A long-term plan is fine but don't neglect how miserable teaching can be if you're in a room and have no idea what you're doing. |
I thought that having the CELTA in Canada puts you at a higher level on the TEFL scale (level 4?) and that you can get jobs teaching English at language schools or teaching immigrants? I realize you can't teach in public schools with a CELTA. I applied to a few TEFL jobs in Vancouver with a CELTA and it is universally known in my experience. You had to have a CELTA to work where I applied.
I did things backwards in that I got my B.Ed. and then started teaching English. I was interested in learning more about teaching adults and the written part of the course (grammar, how to make lessons, etc). Don't be afraid of the workload, because a few of the assignments you can do with your classmates. You will get a chance to teach beginner and intermediate students. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:39 am Post subject: Re: Whether to take the CELTA or TEFL? |
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| I think the CELTA would be good for the OP, as it would give him some practical teaching experience and I think it is a more intense and thorough course than quick TEFL course. If the OP is interested in teaching YL's, he can take the add on YL course as well. |
Just an FYI...
From Cambridge English:
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Teaching courses and modules discontinued from December 2016:
Following the review of the assessment services which we provide, TKT: KAL (Knowledge about Language), TKT Practical and Young Learner (YL) Extension to CELTA are discontinued from December 2016. This means that you can no longer register for them.
TKT: Young Learners is an alternative qualification to Young Learner (YL) Extension to CELTA. |
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JoThomas
Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 148
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| ^Thanks for that information, Nomad. I had no idea about the YL course being discontinued. I wonder why they discontinued the course? I knew quite a few people were interested in taking it at one point. |
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currentaffairs
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Double post
Last edited by currentaffairs on Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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currentaffairs
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Whether to take the CELTA or TEFL? |
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| JoThomas wrote: |
I thought that having the CELTA in Canada puts you at a higher level on the TEFL scale (level 4?) and that you can get jobs teaching English at language schools or teaching immigrants? I realize you can't teach in public schools with a CELTA. I applied to a few TEFL jobs in Vancouver with a CELTA and it is universally known in my experience. You had to have a CELTA to work where I applied.
I did things backwards in that I got my B.Ed. and then started teaching English. I was interested in learning more about teaching adults and the written part of the course (grammar, how to make lessons, etc). Don't be afraid of the workload, because a few of the assignments you can do with your classmates. You will get a chance to teach beginner and intermediate students. |
The scene has changed a fair a bit and I think that's due to two main factors: returning TEFLers (or ones who never go abroad because it's not a lucrative enough option anymore), and a glut of BEd students. BEd prospects, with the exception of French immersion teachers, are pretty brutal. It's hard to get a permanent contract these days, most are stuck subbing or on mat leaves. There's just so many teachers out there looking for work right now.
CELTA is equivalent to Level 1 TESL in Canada (postgrad university certificate is Level 2, and MA TESOL is Level 3).
In addition to this, language schools now offer an incredible $16-20/hour maximum in places like metro Vancouver, despite minimum wage and average entry-level wages now reaching $12-15/hour. I don't know what the heck is going on in Vancouver but I've wanted to go back for five years now and watching prospects like a hawk - it's unbelievable how bad it is. I suspect Toronto has similar issues.
TESL Canada Level 2 is now pretty much the bare minimum to be competitive and now they are expecting MA TESOL because of the competition (for teaching immigrants). It's pretty dire for anyone with just a CELTA. Edmonton and Calgary is pretty good for salaries but again you'll need Level 2-3 minimum these days. Plus, it's nearly May and still snowing so who the heck wants to live here. |
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JoThomas
Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 148
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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@santi84, thanks for the updated information on TESL qualifications in Canada. I never really looked for TEFL jobs except at one point in my life. I remember I got a TEFL job offer in Vancouver,but it was only guaranteed part-time and the pay was close to $20.00 (which is peanuts for Vancouver). It seems the whole teaching scene is pretty dire in Canada, which is why I'm still abroad. As you say, I know many certified teachers on contract or subbing. I was wondering how I would break back into the Canadian teaching market if I ever wanted to in the future with my qualifications, but seems futile at this point. Cheers!
@currentaffairs, thanks for that information as well. Good to know that you can still take the YL extension course at least somewhere. |
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Hod
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 1613
Location: Home
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like a decent three-week course. I haven't done it, but last year I did check out who offered the course. It didn't seem to be offered too often across Europe, and elsewhere prices varied a lot. The cheapest (and only intensive course in Europe in 2016) was the BC Kiev:
http://www.britishcouncil.org.ua/en/teach/teacher-development/courses-qualifications/tylec
If my calculations are right, this costs £250, which is a bargain. The BC Singapore had the same course for £1700! |
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