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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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 Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone is stuck on 12,000/mo SAR. It seems that may be some random amount since it's unclear if AV15 was actually referring to a KFUPM offer:
| AV15 wrote: |
| I'm amazed they get anyone out there for the laughable 12000 SAR a month many places offer now. |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| bigdurian wrote: |
Salaries at unis will equal starting salaries at military/oil if you stick around long enough. But that doesn't take into account that those who stick around in military/oil are also seeing their salary go up by meaningful amounts year on year.
Standard US company payrises are 4%. On 25,000 a month that's 1000 a month extra. 12,000 SAR a year extra.
Stick around for a few years and do the maths yourself. A uni job will never come close. |
Well, yes and no. Even ARAMCO/Military have compensation ceilings above which they don't go. Pay increases are not totally open ended. (This happens not because there's no money to pay higher salaries but because, among other things, the IRS will eventually start taxing you after you've reached the $100 thousand limit to the income tax exemption. And the tax rates at those levels are brutal. ) Instead, companies start offering deferred "bonuses", stock options and so on which are not immediately taxable.
But you're right.....uni salaries will never actually reach company levels.
But as I said previously, we're really talking apples and oranges here. The two types of jobs can't really be compared. A uni job offers so much personal time to yourself. You can teach your 4 hours a day or whatever....and then you're free to go do what you want (for the most part.....this sort of thing is not standardized by any means). At a company job.......you better have your thumb on that button at 7 am sharp and depart no earlier than 4 pm or you're going to hear about it.
I couldn't live like that. I've tried these "terrific" career jobs in my youth on several occasions and they made me sick. But I guess a lot of people wouldn't mind the stress so long as the moola keeps rolling in. More power to them.
For me, having the summer off (let's say 3 months....PAID) is easily worth $20,000/year. For the other "time off" (Ramadan, Eid, and so on....say a month and a half.) is easily worth another US5000/year. I realize many would consider such a point of view "crazy", but then I've been in KSA longer than anyone else I've ever met so my values are no longer quite the same as yours.
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AV15
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| hash wrote: |
| AV15 wrote: |
| I'm amazed they get anyone out there for the laughable 12000 SAR a month many places offer now. |
SAR12000/month comes out to US$38,400/year salary.
Free housing (including utilities) = $1200/month = US$14400/year (this would actually be a lot more in the US, especially for a family).
That's US$52800/year so far. + Add 20% tax free = US$7680/year = US$60480 (salary and benefits)
This does not include things like subsidized food, subsidized gas (petrol), transportation and missc. By now, you're getting close to:
= US$70,000/year (salary, benefits, other savings).
No ESL job anywhere in the US...unless you're a full time, PhD university professor on a tenure track with at least a decade of work and publications behind you (and many more to come)....gets anywhere near that gross salary/benefits. It just doesn't happen.
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No, we're not just going to add on a bunch of supposed 'costs' (lol at adding back on 20% for tax 'savings', and serious lulz at $1,200 a month for housing) to make the offers seem better. Here's why 12k SAR a month sucks: You have to live in Saudi Arabia. Because of that hardship, I'd expect a ton more money than I could get back home or indeed anywhere else.
$38,400 a year plus accomodation can be had in a great many places, all of them nicer than Saudi Arabia. Saudi should offer a LOT more due to the downside of having to live there. Like, $25k more than the nearest competitor, since that's effectively the 'price' of having to live in the KSA for a year.
Not particularly interested in the job market in the US either since it's obviously going to be a crap market...native English speakers being somewhat common in the U.S., after all... |
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AV15
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| hash wrote: |
| You can teach your 4 hours a day or whatever....and then you're free to go do what you want |
Free to do what you want....in Saudi. 
So basically, the 'freedom' to go and sit in your apartment. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Loads of things to do. I have met people who would sit in their apartment and count their money. Some of us developed more interesting hobbies. |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| AV15 wrote: |
| Here's why 12k SAR a month sucks: You have to live in Saudi Arabia. Because of that hardship......, |
Calling KSA a "hardship" post is hardly credible anymore. Look at some of the foto albums of the early ARAMCO that Nomad Soul posted a few days ago. THOSE were hardship posts. There are many things one can call KSA these days but "hardship post" is not one of them (except maybe some remote areas). |
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bigdurian
Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 401
Location: Flashing my lights right behind you!
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| hash wrote: |
| AV15 wrote: |
| Here's why 12k SAR a month sucks: You have to live in Saudi Arabia. Because of that hardship......, |
Calling KSA a "hardship" post is hardly credible anymore. Look at some of the foto albums of the early ARAMCO that Nomad Soul posted a few days ago. THOSE were hardship posts. There are many things one can call KSA these days but "hardship post" is not one of them (except maybe some remote areas). |
It is a hardship posting, my swimming pool is not heated, the maid only comes twice a week, I have to pay for my internet, I only get four economy flights a year, need I go on...? |
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AV15
Joined: 27 Feb 2017
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| hash wrote: |
| AV15 wrote: |
| Here's why 12k SAR a month sucks: You have to live in Saudi Arabia. Because of that hardship......, |
Calling KSA a "hardship" post is hardly credible anymore. Look at some of the foto albums of the early ARAMCO that Nomad Soul posted a few days ago. THOSE were hardship posts. There are many things one can call KSA these days but "hardship post" is not one of them (except maybe some remote areas). |
Lol, course it's a hardship post. You suffer huge social restrictions. Yeah it's probably quite safe now, but there doesn't have to be machine gun fire nearby to make a location a hardship posting. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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The wise ones in the Land Across The Sea have a saying that applies in this instance : "Different strokes for different folks."
For me a true hardship posting would be Florida or California. |
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leggeymountbatten
Joined: 11 Mar 2016
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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AV15 keeps referring to the mystical 12,000 SAR paid by Kfupm.
The actual figure for new starters is 15,200 SAR based on a BA. A Masters attracts slightly more I understand.
On Saudi being a hardship posting, I think in all fairness it could not be described as otherwise. What distinguishes it is the segregation. It is not what one would describe as a "natural environment."
The clue is in the fact that most westerners make for Bahrain at every given opportunity. Why?? Because they can drink, chill out, and mix with the opposite sex.
Oh yes, and to get that general feeling of being free. I forgot that. |
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Siobhan 22
Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Not quite sure about that.
BA plus CELTA plus 12 years' experience netted ne 13500SAR offer. |
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leggeymountbatten
Joined: 11 Mar 2016
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Siobhan - when are you talking about??
How recent was the offer??
Leggey |
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Siobhan 22
Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| March 2017 |
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Siobhan 22
Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| currentaffairs wrote: |
| Siobhan 22 wrote: |
For BA in non-English, CELTA and 12 years ESL experience I was offered 13500.
The non-refundable Iqama fees are a bind, plus transport and accom. to go back to the UK.
The holidays are still a plus (compared with the 30 days for Colleges of Excellence etc).
The accommodation is provided as well and is acceptable.
I pulled out due to the Iqama and a 15000 SAR (standardised) offer for a CoE, plus a business visa paid for by the company via Bahrain. |
1. 13,500 SAR was offered to you by KFUPM?
2. 15,000 SAR excluding accommodation? CoE packages don't usually include accommodation. |
1. 13500? - yes
2. Interserve CoE's have compounds |
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currentaffairs
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Siobhan 22 wrote: |
Not quite sure about that.
BA plus CELTA plus 12 years' experience netted ne 13500SAR offer. |
I would back Siobhan up on that. I know someone with an MA who was offered less than 15,200 SAR by KFUPM about a year ago. |
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