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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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 Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| sicklyman wrote: |
| I can see your point, but it's not a "no brainer" at all. What if you got a CELTA and a DELTA in the ten years before your MA and then spent 1 year after that teaching in exactly the same context afterwards. What's the difference? |
It's not my call; it's up to the prospective employer to determine since they generally look at each applicant on an individual basis. (I'm referring direct hire.) But I suspect those qualifications meet their requirements.
| sicklyman wrote: |
| Let's no airbrush the fact that in most (if not all) of the ME, the piece of paper is valued more than your actual ability to teach. There is no logic to requirements for 90% of positions here. |
You're under the assumption all of us just teach/taught. Considering all the different employment schemes, levels and types of students, types of teaching situations, duties, and roles throughout the GCC, it's not realistic to paint every teaching job with the same broad brush as your own nor label every academic degree a "piece of paper." |
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sicklyman
Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 930
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| the same broad brush as your own |
I was borrowing your brush.
FYI, I don't have a teaching position, but what do you know  |
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MixtecaMike
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 643
Location: Guatebad
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| sicklyman wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| the same broad brush as your own |
I was borrowing your brush.
FYI, I don't have a teaching position, but what do you know |
It's Nomad Soul, she knows eeeeeeverything, don't you know? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Nope. Some things are just common sense. |
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Hemlock32
Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Hemlock32 wrote: |
| Can anyone explain to me the logic behind salary changes between having experience post MA TESOL and prior MA TESOL? It sounds like in Saudi they don't care what you have done beforehand. All that matters is what you have done after you have received your MA? |
Saudi employers aren't the only ones with this requirement. But it's a no brainer. The teaching experience the applicant got using his/her BA in Architecture doesn't carry much weight -- only what he/she did after they completing a related MA. Therefore, if the minimum qualification posted in a job ad is an MA TESOL, then it's likely expected that applicants' qualifying experience be gained after receiving relevant knowledge and skills via their specialized degree program. (BTW, just about every Saudi sent to the US for studies attends a university intensive English program taught by instructors with TESOL-related MAs.)
Keep in mind, some employers also see education in terms of years. For example, a BA is considered 16 years of education, while an MA is 17-18 years. (I'd even noticed this on some online job applications in the US.)
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Based on your idea, if you compared someone who had 5 years of experience teaching English as a second language prior to graduating and now is recently graduated with a MA in TESOL to someone who has no experience teaching English and recently graduated with a MA in TESOL, I couldn´t see the comparison in terms of salary requirements nor in terms of who appears to be more suitable. That is a no-brainer to me.
And if you compare someone with a BA in TESOL with 10 years of experience and someone with a MA in TESOL with no experience, that is another no-brainer. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| Hemlock32 wrote: |
Based on your idea, if you compared someone who had 5 years of experience teaching English as a second language prior to graduating and now is recently graduated with a MA in TESOL to someone who has no experience teaching English and recently graduated with a MA in TESOL, I couldn´t see the comparison in terms of salary requirements nor in terms of who appears to be more suitable. That is a no-brainer to me.
And if you compare someone with a BA in TESOL with 10 years of experience and someone with a MA in TESOL with no experience, that is another no-brainer. |
For employers/contracting companies that require a related BA but have a strong preference for applicants with an MA TESOL, salary levels are at their discretion, as you're finding out. However, in my response, I specified job requirements that indicate a TESOL-related MA as the minimum degree, which means the experience stated should be gained after the MA was conferred. This is typical of many direct-hire university positions in the region (and you're not likely to see salaries stated). For example:
University of Dammam (UD)
Education—minimum requirements:
• Master’s degree in English or related field for lecturer positions
• PhD in English or a related field for Assistant Professor positions
Experience— Minimum requirements: Two years teaching experience with non-native speakers, in English or a related field, at the tertiary level
Qatar University (QU)
Qualifications
• Master's degree/PhD in TESOL, Applied Linguistics or ELT from a reputably accredited university/program.
• at least three years' EAP/EFL/ESL teaching experience at university/tertiary level (overseas experience is desirable).
• experience in testing and assessment, instructional technology, and curriculum and materials development.
• experience in teaching university-level EAP/ EFL/ ESL academic writing / research skills is preferred.
Community College of Qatar (CCQ)
Qualifications: Master’s degree (PhD preferred) in English / Applied Linguistics / TEFL / TESL / ELT, with PGCE or certified teaching qualification.
Experience: Minimum of two years of college level teaching experience in an academic ESL program required and/or a combination of teaching and mentoring in ESOL, plus three to ten years of related work experience, with additional experience in curriculum development.
University in Abu Dhabi (http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/zooey.cgi?read=43218)
Requirements:
• MA Degree in English/TESOL/ESL
• Minimum 2 years teaching experience at university level for Lecturers
• PhD preferred
Anyway, there's a reason why some Gulf employers want a minimum MA. At the Saudi university where I taught, those of us with a TESOL-related MA or PhD had classes in addition to responsibilities that mirror the types of non-teaching activities and competencies indicated above for CCQ and QU.
BTW, today's BA is equivalent to what a high school diploma was decades ago.
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6613
Location: Need to know basis only.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| WARNING (One & Only) - Future insulting, derailing, off-topic or other inappropriate postings will result in immediate bans including ISPs. If this is what you want, your wish will be granted. Not to worry. |
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6613
Location: Need to know basis only.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| A member has just become an ex-member for disregarding the posted Mod Warning above. For the record, this thread is being closely monitored by the Mod Team. |
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In the heat of the moment
Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 393
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| My first job in Saudi required an MA, I didn't have one and was employed. It was on about 10k (don't remember exactly) plus housing allowance, aggressive management, mostly fiercely reluctant students, and even nasty colleagues (with the same passport as I have). In my second job I had the same qualifications but one year of experience in the ME, better colleagues, as bad students, a mixture of bad/better management, but a much higher salary. I was offered a big raise to stay but I, as had most of my colleagues, refused because the job was still a nightmare, regardless of the few extra hundred dollars each month we'd receive. At the time I left I was quite sure I'd never return, but it's often wise to hedge your bets. |
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