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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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 Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| currentaffairs wrote: |
| getbehindthemule wrote: |
| creeper1 wrote: |
| currentaffairs wrote: |
Generally, wherever you start out you will be at the bottom of the ladder. Then you make contacts and get opportunities for the better jobs. After two years I would expect to be well up the ladder.
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What ladder?
Go from kindergarten at English first to working in some university in Inner Mongolia and that is career progression?
This is not a career. It provides a means to travel. That's it. |
On that note, many of us have left careers as climbing the 'ladder' and just didn't appeal anymore. eg. I worked in industry in middle and senior management positions for almost a decade before getting out.
So, I'm definitely not looking for another ladder. People get into teaching for many reasons.
Some posters on this forum (as reblair79 mentioned) live a very money driven existance, others think that their way is the only way. Take with a pinch of salt is right! |
I was thinking more about job conditions, time off and workload rather than just money. When you first go to a country you generally have to make do with what is on offer and perhaps work at night or for long hours. As time goes by you make connections, gain experience, and opportunities arise.
Now I get two months off in the summer, and will probably be on around 14 contact hours per week. No work at the weekend or at night. Quite a lot better than a few years ago. |
Cool, mine went the opposite way:
Year - Classes/wk
1 - 7
2 - 11
3 - 15
4 - 19 |
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voyagerksa
Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:36 am Post subject: Re: Negativity on this forum |
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| ScarletDom93 wrote: |
I've seen a lot of negativity on this forum on different country topics that relate to 'terrible' employers. Are there any decent employers of ESL teachers?  |
MOD EDIT That's it! I've heard Taiwan public schools are pretty good too, but you have to have a license in your Western country. There are some Chinese ESL positions that are marginally acceptable. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:35 am Post subject: |
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The OP is on his/her way to Thailand. No negativity there.  |
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Marinx
Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 86
Location: Guangdong
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| reblair79 wrote: |
My first year begins on August 19th. I'm going into things with a massive open mind. My ambitions are to be grateful for the good times, embrace new challenges and accept the stressful moments with a smile! Hopefully I still have the same attitude in a years time!  |
Do you mind sharing where you are going teach and/or who the company is you'll be working for?
I've not started my TEFL course yet (degree from 2008), but once complete I hope to be in Kunming, China.
I'm interested in hearing about other first timers experiences! |
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reblair79
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Marinx wrote: |
| reblair79 wrote: |
| My first year begins on August 19th. I'm going into things with a massive open mind. My ambitions are to be grateful for the good times, embrace new challenges and accept the stressful moments with a smile! Hopefully I still have the same attitude in a years time! |
Do you mind sharing where you are going teach and/or who the company is you'll be working for?
I've not started my TEFL course yet (degree from 2008), but once complete I hope to be in Kunming, China.
I'm interested in hearing about other first timers experiences! |
I'm going to Saigon to work for Wall Street English.
I looked into Kunming as it sounds a beautiful part of China. But the opportunties were more plentiful in Vietnam - so I opted for there. The visa issue also played a big part - I wouldn't like to be in a job in China and be treated poorly with the only options being to stick it out or go home. I still plan to visit Kunming at some point though. |
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Mikalina
Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 140
Location: Home (said in a Joe90 voice)
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| You HAVE to go to Kunming. It's beautiful and practical and has everything you could wish for in a city including easy to reach outskirts with amazing hills. It is also great as a base for exploring western china. I loved Lijiang. |
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sammysez
Joined: 20 Nov 2016
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Part of the negativity comes from the fact in many jobs you don't really interview, which as greatly changed since SKYPE. |
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Kowloon
Joined: 11 Jan 2016
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Now this will make me seem a paranoid lunatic, but here goes anyway 
I honestly think a lot of the hyper-negative posters actually do this to keep people out of the industry and reduce competition. I know it must make minimal impact, but I just can't get past the idea. Particularly in some of the country subs. MOD EDIT |
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6613
Location: Need to know basis only.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Korea related threads or postings appearing here will be deleted or edited. Continuing to post same will result in a permanent ban along with ISPs. Post Korea related material only on the Korean Job Discussion Forums. |
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kev20
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| getbehindthemule wrote: |
| currentaffairs wrote: |
| getbehindthemule wrote: |
| creeper1 wrote: |
| currentaffairs wrote: |
Generally, wherever you start out you will be at the bottom of the ladder. Then you make contacts and get opportunities for the better jobs. After two years I would expect to be well up the ladder.
|
What ladder?
Go from kindergarten at English first to working in some university in Inner Mongolia and that is career progression?
This is not a career. It provides a means to travel. That's it. |
On that note, many of us have left careers as climbing the 'ladder' and just didn't appeal anymore. eg. I worked in industry in middle and senior management positions for almost a decade before getting out.
So, I'm definitely not looking for another ladder. People get into teaching for many reasons.
Some posters on this forum (as reblair79 mentioned) live a very money driven existance, others think that their way is the only way. Take with a pinch of salt is right! |
I was thinking more about job conditions, time off and workload rather than just money. When you first go to a country you generally have to make do with what is on offer and perhaps work at night or for long hours. As time goes by you make connections, gain experience, and opportunities arise.
Now I get two months off in the summer, and will probably be on around 14 contact hours per week. No work at the weekend or at night. Quite a lot better than a few years ago. |
Cool, mine went the opposite way:
Year - Classes/wk
1 - 7
2 - 11
3 - 15
4 - 19 |
Yes, generally the case if you stay in one school. They'll think of ways to work you harder.
I don't think there is really a ladder. It's just the more experience you have the better your chances of securing better jobs, in areas you desire. People become better at choosing the packages that are right for them, and through bad experiences are better equipped to eliminate certain jobs whether that is based on location or school type. |
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kev20
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:10 am Post subject: |
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Of course, within some of the companies that hire teachers for public schools, there are always those few less than subtle foreign teachers who try to know everybody and make it their business to try to be the 'foreign teacher manager', I gather in an attempt to get an administrative job in the company. They are usually quick to prey on the newbies, offering all sorts of advice and information, and using any information they get in return to impress the Chinese folks in the company office.
That is possibly one way of 'climbing the ladder'. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| The style of post used by kev20 above is very difficult to decipher. Why not just write a simple text and post it ? |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| reblair79 wrote: |
| spiral78 wrote: |
Overall, I think that everyone's first year is usually somewhat stressful. Being new in a job and a location means that even smaller employer iggies can have a greater impact than the same things would when you're more experienced. |
My first year begins on August 19th. I'm going into things with a massive open mind. My ambitions are to be grateful for the good times, embrace new challenges and accept the stressful moments with a smile! Hopefully I still have the same attitude in a years time! |
Where are you headed? I remember my first year 2005-2006 in South Korea. |
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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 1082
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| currentaffairs wrote: |
| Generally, wherever you start out you will be at the bottom of the ladder. |
Seems to me credentialism kicked away the ladder in much of the world. Who here's a DoS without a DELTA or MA TESOL, just years of teaching, then teacher mentoring, leading to teacher training etc.? In my third contract in China, I was hired as a co-manager of a kids franchise school and the reg director was previously just another teacher but I think that only happens in Asia. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| creeper1 wrote: |
| currentaffairs wrote: |
Generally, wherever you start out you will be at the bottom of the ladder. Then you make contacts and get opportunities for the better jobs. After two years I would expect to be well up the ladder.
|
What ladder?
Go from kindergarten at English first to working in some university in Inner Mongolia and that is career progression?
This is not a career. It provides a means to travel. That's it. |
It does provide people an opportunity to travel and that's great! If somebody just wants to do it for a couple of years, see a few places, have a few laughs, then return home to build a career then more power to 'em. That's providing, of course, that they don't shortchange their students by giving inferior lessons etc. It is probably preferable to the way I did it. I spent about three years in Europe, mostly working in pubs. I don't regret it, but, in terms of lifestyle and money, I dare say I would have had it a lot better by getting a typical, entry-level TEFL gig in China, Japan, South Korea, Vietnam etc.
I know TEFLers who seem perfectly happy working in various language schools and changing countries every few years. OK, if they're happy then there is nothing more that needs to be said. However, I'd probably be inclined to view that as working in a series of various jobs and not as a professional career. If you want to make this into a serious career, then, IMHO, you have to be prepared to invest in your qualifications. Also you need to think strategically about what jobs you need to take and when it's time to move on.
The days when you could make decent money with an unrelated degree and a TEFL certificate are, IMHO, coming to an end. There are still opportunities to save good dosh in the Gulf, but, then again, you have to live in the Gulf to get it and conditions there are getting worse, not better. You can also earn decent money in China, especially if you are prepared to put in the hours. There are other options as well. However, TEFLers with a few years' experience, CELTAs and unrelated degrees are a dime and dozen and if you want the desirable gigs then you got to stand out a bit from the crowd.
I'm just finishing a Grad Dip Ed and a MA (English) and just got offered a well-remunerated job in Brunei. I wouldn't have got it without my TEFL experience. I'm then going to do a Masters of Education (TESOL). Due to my previous studies and experience, I'll be able to get this knocked over with a handful of units. After that, then I'll be very competitive for a job as a lecturer in a decent, Australian university or TAFE college, if that's what I wanted. Bridging English language programs catering to international students are growing in Australia and have been for some time. Seems as a good a career to me as any and better than most. |
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