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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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 Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:14 am Post subject: |
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As I stated earlier, for the op's benefit, there are schools that don't necessarily call themselves IS but have an International department and teach the IB.
This is a group I had been unaware of. Tks.
NS |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
As I stated earlier, for the op's benefit, there are schools that don't necessarily call themselves IS but have an International department and teach the IB.
This is a group I had been unaware of. Tks.
NS |
Yeah, in SH anyway that is (I'd imagine in the other major cities also) and these would be either Primary/Middle schools so not everybody's cup of tea.
Just from my own research I would only work in this type of position or a Uni position here in China I think. The private language mills def not for me. Kindergarten nah, althought the pay can be huge! Private tutoring not really my thing either (although I've dabbled).
Everybody's different I guess though and it takes a lot of research to discover the pros and cons of each type of teaching position available here in the MK  |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:15 am Post subject: |
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The arrangement that worked best for me was an Oral English max 20 hours gig in a public uni or vocational and then take on as much private stuff as I felt like.
Key to privates is Oral English. No prep time if you've got your stuff together from previous jobs. Assessment is done in class time.
Keying in the marks mid and end semester is the only admin task and I actually quite liked that part.
The only international I know anything about is Clifford in Guangzhou. The local Chinese children who attended got taught in English for half a day and the other half in Chinese. These were upper primary level. Must have been a timetabling nightmare. A lot of the teachers were Canada registered I recall. |
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getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
The arrangement that worked best for me was an Oral English max 20 hours gig in a public uni or vocational and then take on as much private stuff as I felt like.
Key to privates is Oral English. No prep time if you've got your stuff together from previous jobs. Assessment is done in class time.
Keying in the marks mid and end semester is the only admin task and I actually quite liked that part.
The only international I know anything about is Clifford in Guangzhou. The local Chinese children who attended got taught in English for half a day and the other half in Chinese. These were upper primary level. Must have been a timetabling nightmare. A lot of the teachers were Canada registered I recall. |
Interesting. The school that I currently work at is a little bit unique I think. It is a public school managed by an IS. They are Chinese taught yet have Science (which I teach) taught through English and a seperate activities based curriculum. It suits me down to the ground, no written work as such, no homework to correct, etc. Similar to you, I just give them a test/quiz/project after each unit and key in the marks, which I also quite like
I don't have as much free time as a Uni position of course but the package outweighs that for me. |
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Kalkstein
Joined: 25 Aug 2016
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
The arrangement that worked best for me was an Oral English max 20 hours gig in a public uni or vocational and then take on as much private stuff as I felt like.
Key to privates is Oral English. No prep time if you've got your stuff together from previous jobs. Assessment is done in class time.
Keying in the marks mid and end semester is the only admin task and I actually quite liked that part.
The only international I know anything about is Clifford in Guangzhou. The local Chinese children who attended got taught in English for half a day and the other half in Chinese. These were upper primary level. Must have been a timetabling nightmare. A lot of the teachers were Canada registered I recall. |
Definitely my preference, 12-16 hour week uni/public vocational college schedule, then +10 hours on private lessons a week. I work slightly less, earn slightly more and have a LOT more vacation than the licensed teachers working in the sino school within this city. No point in me getting licensed which I had considered.
| getbehindthemule wrote: |
Everybody's different I guess though and it takes a lot of research to discover the pros and cons of each type of teaching position available here in the MK |
I think this is the bottom line. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| getbehindthemule wrote: |
| Non Sequitur wrote: |
The arrangement that worked best for me was an Oral English max 20 hours gig in a public uni or vocational and then take on as much private stuff as I felt like.
Key to privates is Oral English. No prep time if you've got your stuff together from previous jobs. Assessment is done in class time.
Keying in the marks mid and end semester is the only admin task and I actually quite liked that part.
The only international I know anything about is Clifford in Guangzhou. The local Chinese children who attended got taught in English for half a day and the other half in Chinese. These were upper primary level. Must have been a timetabling nightmare. A lot of the teachers were Canada registered I recall. |
Interesting. The school that I currently work at is a little bit unique I think. It is a public school managed by an IS. They are Chinese taught yet have Science (which I teach) taught through English and a seperate activities based curriculum. It suits me down to the ground, no written work as such, no homework to correct, etc. Similar to you, I just give them a test/quiz/project after each unit and key in the marks, which I also quite like
I don't have as much free time as a Uni position of course but the package outweighs that for me. |
This may be a trending development. I recently heard of a city where an entrepreneurial type had taken over the running of FIVE middle and primary schools. |
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Marinx
Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 86
Location: Guangdong
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| cdchristy wrote: |
Besides those already listed, or at least a sub-category----Some schools in China focus on wealthier students who plan to go abroad. These schools sometimes use 'international' in their name. In terms of degrees and certification, their requirements are a little above the univ. and a little below the expat schools...
Also, I would add that required qualifications for a given type of teaching position may be somewhat lower as you start moving away from the coast and cities like Shanghai and Beijing where schools have more talent available. |
Its good to know there *may* be an opportunity, cdchristy. I'm not looking to move to Beijing or SH for my first year. I like what I hear about Kunming or Dalian. I know they would probably pay less and/or have less benefits because they are desirable locations, however I don't want to go and have a miserable experience my first time out.
| getbehindthemule wrote: |
There are some big schools （K-12） in Shanghai that have different departments. They may have an IB department, an 'International' dept and several local (public) depts managed by the IS.
If you have a degree, TEFL and 2 years experience you will be able to get a position with one of these schools. The IB dept will require licensed teachers for the most part for obvious reasons (but I do know of unlicensed teachers who have had success).
This is the type of school that I would look at as the package is good (decent salary, housing allowance, health insurance, airfare allowance, fully paid hols, etc.) |
I'm guessing that IB stands for International Business. Thank you for mentioning the benefits of working in a big polluted city like SH, it helps with the "pros" list
| nimadecaomei wrote: |
| I teach AP now, but have a PGCE. It is true international can mean anything. All they have to do is add it to the name. I would look into what the previous poster said. |
I have looked up PGCE. I'm not sure what the equivalent is in Canada though I really would like to find out more about it down the road.
| theoriginalprankster wrote: |
I'm teaching at what could be at best called a "3rd/4th tier" international school.
99% of the students are Chinese, their English levels are hopeless, they're rich and spoilt (they will see the light with me teaching them), and some are probably going to make it into overseas universities by the skin on their teeth.
The management/administration is hopeless, the principal doesn't even speak English (I probably communicate better with the guards), the pay is just ok, not great, and it's in the middle of nowhere.
Interesting, although depressing to see this kind of shambolic setup call itself an international school, but hopefully it will look good on the CV when I move on in 6/12 months. |
It doesn't sound great. Is there bus service to the nearest "big" town? I have no idea what transportation is like in rural areas in China although I assume its similar to what is available in most small towns, which is nothing haha. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed, real international schools are extremely strict and aware of these things. The genuine international schools require teaching certifications, no matter where they are located & the subject. One that I know of in my tier 3/4 middle of nowhere city recently refused a MSc in Physics from a top 50 university because he didn't have a teaching license and they've been looking for years to hire a physics teacher.
Again, I assume that this is a K-12 school. You won't find manymasters level college and university teachers who are licensed. Licensure isn't required to teach post-secondary schools in the U.S..
Is licensure required to teach post-secondary level in the U.K? |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:53 am Post subject: |
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I've been assuming 'IB' means International Baccalaureate.
Can this be clarified? |
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Relevant
Joined: 16 Apr 2017
Posts: 39
Location: In the wind....
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
I've been assuming 'IB' means International Baccalaureate.
Can this be clarified? |
It does |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:44 am Post subject: |
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One that I know of in my tier 3/4 middle of nowhere city recently refused a MSc in Physics from a top 50 university because he didn't have a teaching license and they've been looking for years to hire a physics teacher.
This from Kalkstein.
But Bud says he was offered an international school gig without a home country teaching registration.
As I've long suspected Bud - you do it on charm  |
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papuadn
Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:06 am Post subject: |
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Was Bud's offer from one of these schools?
Schools Offering International Baccalaureate (Wikipedia)
No tertiary institutions (in England or elsewhere) require faculty to hold degrees (graduate, or otherwise) in Education, other than in the Ed. dept. 
A less confusing modifier than "real" or "genuine" is accredited because accredited IB schools and "international programs" are different beasts.
China's pupils have been going abroad for study in increasing numbers for some time (some say a peak is imminent) and by what terms and conditions (other than cash) are deliberately muddled by parties on both ends.
I have known highly paid teachers (unrelated BA and CELTA) working for prestigious high schools with "international" programs (that is to say, all of their students were bound for western nations) who weren't required to submit grades and I have known teachers with advanced degrees and experience working for much less money at poorly rated universities providing their students a top-notch experience and accounting. |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:50 am Post subject: |
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Does it matter? In the primary and secondary grades, it is very important that the teacher know not only the what of the subject but also the how (how to teach) because students are taught not only the subject matter but also how to learn it.
I've never asked a Chinese teacher this, but are Chinese professors required to possess some sort of licensure?
In the States, private schools have different requirements and the teachers are often exempt from being state licensed, though they may be required to pass tests that determine their proficiency in a subject.
As I understand it, the International Baccalaureate degree is offered to students aged 16 to 19. That sounds like high school/secondary school to me to me. (level 3 on the RQF).
Last edited by OhBudPowellWhereArtThou on Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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papuadn
Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| OhBudPowellWhereArtThou wrote: |
| Does it matter? |
No, not really. NonSequitur was teasing you, but you had said you were offered a position at an international university. I read the ribbing as an excuse to post a definitive link about the topic because between abbreviations and careerist jargon, expressions like "schools that 'do' IB" had surfaced in a thread repeatedly conflating IB schools and schools for the rich who send students abroad by the term "vanity", implying fake.
Which is inaccurate and misrepresentative...the practice has been going on for some time and is quite real. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:43 am Post subject: |
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Not really fake but pandering to arrivist parents.
I taught an international program one semester at a Qingdao vocational that focused on entry to Canadian and Australian tertiaries. The students paid more and as far as I could gather did not have the Gao Kao results to get regular entry into even a provincial-level vocational. I would put that at the lowest level of 'international program'.
Interesting point about IB age-level. This tallies with the O and A levels I think. Also in my country what used to be called School Certificate (sat after 3 years high school) and the University Entrance sat or accredited after 4 years high school. |
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