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Birdog3344
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 126
Location: Osaka, Japan
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 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow guys! Not exactly ringing endorsements of the life of an English teacher in Japan. I'm hoping to arrive in the fall with my girlfriend, but i'm a bit taken aback by all the negative posts on this particular thread (save for a few of the latest). I realize that many people have a romanticized notion of life in another country and that English teaching in particular can be a real drag but what are you all doing there? And for so many years no less. Who here would make the same choice if they knew then what they do now? And not just because it 'made you a better person' or 'whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger'. Who has really enjoyed it and would recommend it to others, all caveats aside? And what would you do differently? Looking forward to your responses. |
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ranmawoman
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 64
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| What do you all mean by some large cities being ugly? Like it is New York dirty? or what does that mean? *worried* |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| Birdog3344 wrote: |
| Who here would make the same choice if they knew then what they do now? And not just because it 'made you a better person' or 'whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger'. Who has really enjoyed it and would recommend it to others, all caveats aside? And what would you do differently? Looking forward to your responses. |
Would I come here again if I knew what it would be like? You bet. However, I'm teaching at a university. I have enjoyed living here, but it doesn't mean I'm not bothered and saddened by the social problems in this country. Would I work at an eikaiwa at this point in my life? No way. I have done my dues elsewhere and wouldn't go back. It wouldn't be enough to support a family or it might.... barely. If you're young and single, living and teaching here could be a lot of fun. If you're looking for a rewarding teaching experience, I would recommend almost anywhere but Japan.
Was I surprised by the ugliness of Japan? Yes as I'm sure most of us here are. I never fathomed one could have so many power lines on a street. The beaches are also atrocious with all of the cement breakwaters. At least it makes you appreciate other places all the more. |
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kiracle
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 65
Location: Gifu, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Birdog3344 - I think people are just trying to give a heads up to some of the trials and tribulations that await new teachers with a romantisized notion of life in Japan. The reality can be grim but like many people said it can be grim anywhere. I agree completely that long term only works if you are really interested in the culture and you make some serious roots here. But short time, if you come with an open mind, again as many people suggested, there is much to be gained and expereinced and enjoyed. Japan is however NOTHING like "The Last Samurai" so if you think that that is the kind of world you might be stepping into you will be sorely disappointed. I just say this because I was. I knew it wasn't the Last Samurai but I still thought the deep and fascinating culture and history I associate with Japan woudl be visible. It is...but only if you go looking very, very hard. Esthetics aside, living here is pretty easy once you adjust. People are general friendly and polite, english teacher hours are pretty light (compared to the average Japanese anyway) and there are lots of interesting things to do if you have the desire and energy to search it out. Just come and find out for yourself.
Rammawoman - I'm from New York and I honestly thik the dirt factor is about the same (mayeb a little cleaner) but New York is about a million times more beautiful. Cities here are pretty much full of new, cheap buildings that seem to follow no kind of code and even less some kind of urban planning scheme. Power lines are everywhere and there is not a huge amount of green. In New York there are many neighborhoods of tree lined trees with 100 year old brownstones and neighborhood cafes. I've seen nothing like this here. It's just different and to Western eyes it just plain looks ugly. But that in no way means you can't enjoy living in a city or that you won't have a good time. Nagoya (the biggest city near me and to be fair the one I am basing most of my assumptions on) is pretty ugly but I love hanging out there and most of the people I know who live in it are completely happy with where they live. So again- don't worry. Come, expereince it for yourself, get what you can out of it and make your own decisions as to how long you want to stay later.
Hope that helps,
kiracle |
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azarashi sushi
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 562
Location: Shinjuku
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Who here would make the same choice if they knew then what they do now? And not just because it 'made you a better person' or 'whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger'. Who has really enjoyed it and would recommend it to others, all caveats aside |
For sure I would make the same choice again! I'd probably even work in an Eikaiwa again if I had to... I've met truly wonderful people and had an amazing experience... And learned alot. As I said before, to survive long term you really need to have a deep love of the culture. I don't. For me, I simply feel it's time to move on (at least start thinking about moving on).
The only thing I would do differently is come with absolutely no expectation whatsoever (as I said in a previous post). I don't know which city you're planning on going to but in the case of Tokyo, I think the reason a lot of people get disappointed is because it is often put into the same league as London, Paris and New York. It has this incredible build up. Not so long ago, Japan was basically a rice farming village. It imported a lot of western technology, started manufacturing high tech goods and exporting them... And BANG! Next thing you know, it's a rich country and it starts importing Chanel and Versace buy the container load. Essentially, it bought its way into London-Paris-New York league yet still remained a rice farming and manufacturing country.
Where I live, West Shinjuku, is really quite attractive. There are some really interesting buildings (TMGO, Park Tower), really wide clean streets and three big parks within walking distance: Shinjuku central park, Meiji Jingu and Yoyogi Park. Although Shinjuku Central Park has been completely overtaken by homeless people so there is more blue than there is green. But yes, unfortunately other than that and a few small pockets here and there, the rest of Tokyo looks fairly "pre-fab", dull and characterless. Even the area around JR Shinjuku station has a "temporary" feel about it.
You have to give them credit though... There's a lot of people crammed into a small space. They wouldn't be able to grow enough food to feed themselves so it was basically a case of manufacture and export or starve. Cities have been flattened a few times due to war or earthquake. I guess there's really no point building stunning buildings that cost a fortune if they're only going to be flattened by an earthquake. They're doing a pretty good job given the circumstances. Again regarding the power lines... In some areas they are buried (eg. Nishi Shinjuku, Ginza) but again it's because of the earthquakes that they need to be above ground.
Anyway, you shouldn't have any reservations coming here for the short term. Wherever you end up, I'm sure you'll have a great time. People paint a grim picture of Eikaiwas but I always enjoyed my time there (and still continue to teach two Eikaiwa classes a week because I enjoy it). Just don't plan for the long term untill you've experienced it yourself. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| azarashi sushi wrote: |
In some areas they are buried (eg. Nishi Shinjuku, Ginza) but again it's because of the earthquakes that they need to be above ground.
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Not true. In an earthquake, it is better for the power lines to be buried than be above ground. It is less dangerous. Money is the reason why the lines are not buried. |
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J-kun
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 43
Location: The Hell of Pachinko
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:02 am Post subject: |
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[quote="azarashi sushi"]
| Quote: |
The only thing I would do differently is come with absolutely no expectation whatsoever (as I said in a previous post). |
This is good advice in a way, but awfully hard to do. I mean, you choose where you want to go live and teach partly based on what you think it's going to be like. Though, absolutely, you shouldn't hold to those expectations once you get here, or be disappointed when they aren't met. Usually, you have an image or expectation of a place and go there to find out what it's really like and experince it for yourself. The thing about Japan(unlike Europe, for example, which pretty much lives up to expectations) is that the reality is hardly anything like what you'd expect it to be.
Still, I enjoyed most of my first year here but, as I near the end of my second, I'm finding living in Japan less and less fulfilling. Even though my job situation is indisputably better now than when I worked at one of the big eikaiwa, now that the novelty has worn off, I've realized that this place just isn't for me. Actually, it'll be sayonara next month and I'm quite looking forward to moving on. |
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skarp
Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the responses...
A lot of the comments end up being very generic, and that's OK.
It's a straw poll but useful for all that.
Some like it there (Japan) - some don't. Being happy is a knack some of us have and some of us don't. I'm mostly a don't. I'm trying to learn how to enjoy my life and that's why I asked specifically for a prescription - some ideas from the happy few to think about.
More seem to like Japan than Korea anyway. Korea seems to attract the losers who will struggle anywhere - at least they can get jobs here which would be tough in most other places.
It is hard to live in a foreign country and after a while in EFL it becomes your only choice - going 'home' will be worse than sticking it out. The job market in my country is rubbish and run by those who sold out long ago - beaten paths for beaten men and all that. They refuse to be impressed by the likes of us. Our lives will be harder but also richer (not in money but in experience).
I love the time in contact with students. I like a lot of the teachers I meet (though most are freaks in South Korea, I have been lucky to fall in with a good bunch). I've seen more and done more than most of the people I was at school with. They married the girl next door and got shackled up to a mortgage decades ago.
I was sitting sharing a beer with a friend a while back. This guy had everything - big cars, big house, a secure job in his dad's business...the works.. He turned to me and said he was jealous of me - because I'd done more interesting things.
Of course - having an interesting life is a double edged sword.
My mum thought I'd be better off as a schoolteacher too - in some ways she was right, but I've never regretted not going that way. Beaten paths for beaten men. |
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Brooks
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1369
Location: Sagamihara
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Skarp,
I think it is hard to have it both ways. I think we have to take the good with the bad.
For example, I get a good salary but I have to come in on Saturdays and be here until 12:00 even though no classes are held.
I work at a high school, and I find that the longer I am here, the more work I am going to have to do. This year I joined the English Drama Club, and it gets busy at times.
Tomorrow morning I will take the foreign exchange students from the US and Austria shopping.
Saturday we have the annual music festival in Yokohama, and it won`t end until after four p.m.
I will write another article for my schools` journal. This year I am writing about the challenges in teaching returnees.
In the future I will have to go overseas with students from my school to another school (maybe in California). Overseas school trips tend to take place during vacations.
So, on the one hand I get more experience by trying new things. On the other hand, I would like to sleep in on Saturday mornings, and then go hiking since I spend too much time sitting.
I work in Tokyo and don`t like it. I would prefer to be in another part of Japan that isn`t as crowded. But I don`t want to take a pay cut just yet since I like the two bonuses I get. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Not exactly ringing endorsements of the life of an English teacher in Japan. |
Well, who said it was glorious, high-paying, wonderful, etc.? I tried asking this a while ago and got zero replies. There you have it.
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| I realize that many people have a romanticized notion of life in another country |
Yup, and the more exotic the land, the more romanticized the notion. Too many people watch movies and think they are reality.
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| and that English teaching in particular can be a real drag |
Your job and life is what you make of them. I think most people here were trying to describe the surroundings and/or what newbies may face in opposition to what they expect. Teaching is a job, not a vacation, whether you teach kindergarten kids in Chicago, or Africans for the Peace Corps, or eikaiwa students in Japan.
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| but what are you all doing there? And for so many years no less. |
Teaching, what else? Ok, just kidding. I think you will find that practically everyone has come for different reasons. Running away from something. Running to something. Running for something. Running into something. Just running. Some people change what they start doing here. Some only wish to. Not everyone stays here for "so many years". I would hazard a guess that the average person is here only 1-3 years at most.
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| Who here would make the same choice if they knew then what they do now? |
I would.
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| Who has really enjoyed it and would recommend it to others, all caveats aside? |
Ah, now you have asked two questions. Quite different ones, at that. Why I (or anyone else) have enjoyed my stay is going to be very different from you (or anyone else). I can't possibly recommend it for the same reasons that I enjoy it unless you (or anyone else) are exactly like me. I know that doesn't sound like a solid answer, but step back and think about it.
Would I recommend it to others? No, not to all. You can't put those "caveats" aside. Some people are just not cut out for it. I'd spent 5 months living in Tokyo back in 1985 working for another business as my first experience here. I took some language classes upon return to my home country. I studied a lot about Japan and its customs, music, business, English teaching business, movies, etc. I returned 10 years later for a solo vacation that covered almost 2 dozen cities on two of the main islands. I later got EFL certification before I struck out to teach here. I researched the job market and got a very good deal (airfare and rent paid for). I found a wonderful woman and got married here. How many people have had anything close to these experiences? Zilch. That's just one reason why I cannot recommend it to everyone.
I prepared, and I did so my way (with apologies to Mr. Sinatra). Not everyone does. Not everyone has to.
I came here with a goal. Not everyone has to, but in my opinion, it helps.
I did not come here with a time limit in mind. Some people should.
I have an open mind about my foreign surroundings. Not everyone does, but most people should if they live overseas.
I have lived away from my family for many years before I came here. Not everyone has done so, but I recommend that they do before moving overseas, especially for a job early in their post-college life.
I have sometimes been labeled as a person who only presents the negative side of life or work here. I prefer to label myself as a realist who tries to dispel false impressions and to point out hardships that may create problems. You have to determine whether such things are worth overcoming, or if you want to even try to overcome them. There's no sense in coming here unprepared, only to discover things are not rosy and gold-plated, and then go home whining about only the negative things when they should (or could) have learned about it beforehand.
Newbies face culture shock in a variety of forms here:
apartments
business customs
learning how to teach
bar scenes
language barriers
isolation from friends and family
and more
Why would (or should) someone risk so much just to come here only to end up unhappy (or worse)? Caveats, indeed.
| Quote: |
| And what would you do differently? |
Prepare even more, especially with Japanese language skills. |
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Mike L.
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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[quote]I researched the job market and got a very good deal (airfare and rent paid for). I found a wonderful woman and got married here. How many people have had anything close to these experiences? Zilch. That's just one reason why I cannot recommend it to everyone.
[/quote]
I know lot's of people who have had identical experiences! Minus the wife I'm one.
Although times have changed with the right attitude and careful planning it can be done!
I'd say the best thing you can do here is set goals, especially finnacial ones, and meet them. That way your time here won't be simply "existing." |
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Jack Tripper
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 12
Location: southern Maine
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Birdog3344 (and others on the verge of moving to Japan):
If its any consultation- I'll be moving to Japan soon as a JET ALT and I have heard nothing but glowing responses about life and work in Japan from my predecessor and other ALTs nearby. Now I've heard that its very much dependant upon location as well as personal character, much to what folks have said on this thread already.
But be aware that these kinds of forums / threads harbor replies that can be very critical- and theres nothing wrong with that, its actually very helpful at times. Though I don't know if its a fair assessment of the majority of attitudes/experiences out there of foreigners already living and teaching in Japan [meaning: what is the average type of person using these forums once they're settled in Japan?]. People are sometimes venting, and these are helpful warnings/insights that should be taken with a grain of salt.
JT |
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ntropy
Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 671
Location: ghurba
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:32 am Post subject: |
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How to be happy in Japan?
Don't marry there. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| Jack Tripper wrote: |
If its any consultation- I'll be moving to Japan soon as a JET ALT and I have heard nothing but glowing responses about life and work in Japan from my predecessor and other ALTs nearby.
JT |
This is called the 'honeymoon phase'.
| Jack Tripper wrote: |
But be aware that these kinds of forums / threads harbor replies that can be very critical- and theres nothing wrong with that, its actually very helpful at times. Though I don't know if its a fair assessment of the majority of attitudes/experiences out there of foreigners already living and teaching in Japan
JT |
Some critical but also a fair dose of reality- most of the regulars here are long term residents and not just JETs just out of college who tend to congregate elsewhere.
As for whether its a majority- everyone is different and has different experiences. How you deal with those experiences is the key. Talk to anyone whos been here long enough and chances are it has happened to them too. For newbies its like a revelation as they have never felt that way before. Anyway as for the postings its like the newspapers, who only publish negative stuff which makes the news, while they ignore it when things are good. Misery loves company.
| Jack Tripper wrote: |
[meaning: what is the average type of person using these forums once they're settled in Japan?]. People are sometimes venting, and these are helpful warnings/insights that should be taken with a grain of salt.
JT |
What would you mean by average? people are not acting average when they post anonymously on a bulletin board, and they say things they would not say face to face. Your 'average' person is a middle-class, probably white, university educated male or female from an English speaking country who can afford to travel overseas and set up shop in a foreign country, has few or no ties to this country except an interest in the culture
and/or wanting to make a few yen here. |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:18 am Post subject: |
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I was in Japan six years and I've been on this board almost a year. I have to say that the general opinion of living and working in Japan that comes across on this forum is very very close to reality I would say.
You can trust what you get here at the moment and therefore, in this respect at least, it is quite different in this from the Korean forum 
If Skarp really wants to know how to be happy in Japan, he should search out the thread that was something to do with being thick skinned. It was spot on for most of it. |
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