|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
nimadecaomei
Joined: 22 Sep 2016
Posts: 605
|
 Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:45 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| eternalw wrote: |
Hi,
Will it be ok to pm you to get the lady's name? I'm newbie and would like to go through recommendations, when dealing with a recruiter. Thanks  |
Fine by me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nimadecaomei
Joined: 22 Sep 2016
Posts: 605
|
| Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My personal example of using an agent is the only way I would do it. The agent takes your info/cv and then finds a compatible school. Once found and the school and you agree, the interview is set up. The agent is not a party in the interview. They will know the basics of what the school has on offer, but nothing about anything that might be negotiated or said in the interview (unless you or the school tell them).
A direct hire is just as likely to find themselves working at two campuses, getting stuck teaching an age group they did not want, working on a quasi-legal basis because the employer cannot actually employ them legally, and any other bad thing you might imagine. No matter how you go about it, be careful and check everything.
I don't live on campus, but it is about 5-10 minutes to my classroom. I do not have a company apartment, I have 5k pm to take care of it. I get health insurance that works in and out of China. I have pay 12 months a year that is much higher than my high (12k pm) uni pay before. The agent directed me to this position, I would not say that all agents are like this, but some are. I think it is just as bad to say all agents are horrible and for some reason out to get you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nimadecaomei
Joined: 22 Sep 2016
Posts: 605
|
| Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| To put it another way, if I had listened to some of the advice here, I would be working for peanuts in a uni and unable to save for my son's future. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
|
| Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: My Experience Further |
|
|
| Non Sequitur wrote: |
| Using an agent could be a sign that the school doesn't have the legal right to hire foreigners and that could indeed be 'bad news'. |
Which can be figured out when it comes to applying or transferring the visa.
Also Just make sure that the contract states the name of the school itself and not the recruiter. Compare the English and Chinese contract versions and if there are any discrepancies then it's pretty obvious that the recruiter is dodgy.
| Quote: |
| Also if you are hired by an agent beware the possibility that you will be teaching at more than one location. The commute time is not paid time generally. |
To be fair, that's a risk with working for any of the chain schools. I've encountered the attempts by schools to farm me out, but it can be sidestepped by pointing out the illegality of it. The visa requires you to work at one school, and the one named on the visa application.
| Quote: |
You'll be blindsided enough in China without passing on things you could have checked. My advice is be put in contact with the school to confirm things like age of students, availability of textbooks etc.
If necessary agree with the agent that salary and other allowances will not be discussed. |
I'd generally consider that the agent is there to connect me with the school. I don't do interviews with the agent, nor will I enter into negotiations with them. Once contact is made with the school, the interview(s) are done, and questions can be asked about everything with the school directly.
Any recruiter that refuses you contact with the school should be dropped and blocked. They can make the initial contact for you, but after the first contact, the school should have email and wechat contacts for further communication.
There's nothing wrong with using recruiters as long as you don't trust them (awareness of the common scams are very useful), and get contact with the school asap. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
|
| Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nimadecaomei wrote: |
| To put it another way, if I had listened to some of the advice here, |
the TEFL world in China is quite varied in experiences. Plenty of good/bad experiences for everything. That's why these forums are so useful... although it's worth remembering that other peoples experiences are not absolutely true.
I've used recruiters a fair bit... and I've also gotten jobs going direct to the schools. Both are useful methods.
| Quote: |
| I would be working for peanuts in a uni and unable to save for my son's future. |
As for working for peanuts... I work mostly in the universities for peanuts.  But then I consider working 40 hours in a language mill at 20k-30k rmb to be peanuts too, considering the work involved.
My uni job provides a visa, accommodation, and basic income. My primary income is from other ventures, which I feel is the only real way to do this kind of work long-term. Relying on teaching as a main income... nah. Not worth it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
geosmiley
Joined: 25 Jan 2016
Posts: 62
|
| Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 6:27 am Post subject: Blinkers |
|
|
[quote="getbehindthemule"]I think part of the problem, on this site, is that many poster think that it is a forum of Uni teachers only and have the blinkers on when discussing numerous topics such as this one [/quote]
An alternative explanation for the thoughtful might be that people have learned from their experiences and position themselves accordingly. Naturally, I understand that not everyone is thoughtful. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kalkstein
Joined: 25 Aug 2016
Posts: 80
|
| Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 11:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cormac wrote: |
| nimadecaomei wrote: |
| To put it another way, if I had listened to some of the advice here, |
the TEFL world in China is quite varied in experiences. Plenty of good/bad experiences for everything. That's why these forums are so useful... although it's worth remembering that other peoples experiences are not absolutely true.
I've used recruiters a fair bit... and I've also gotten jobs going direct to the schools. Both are useful methods.
| Quote: |
| I would be working for peanuts in a uni and unable to save for my son's future. |
As for working for peanuts... I work mostly in the universities for peanuts. But then I consider working 40 hours in a language mill at 20k-30k rmb to be peanuts too, considering the work involved.
My uni job provides a visa, accommodation, and basic income. My primary income is from other ventures, which I feel is the only real way to do this kind of work long-term. Relying on teaching as a main income... nah. Not worth it. |
I have more or less the same opinion, it all depends on what you intend to do. Standard university jobs on their own are not viable for supporting a family with but if you don't have a family and are young/just in it to make some money and travel a lot then they're probably perfect with 4 months holiday + low hours.
Another common scenario is if you have a high paying job on the side. Far less stressful than working at an international school IMO. I can do what I want during my classes, even not teach if I wish (at university). During my side work I can pick and choose clients and get rid of all the people who aren't worth the cash. If I were to get qualified and move to an international school I'd be taking a large salary cut and losing out on a lot of paid holiday.
Everyone's experience varies, you need to take into consideration your own circumstances. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
|
| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, everyone's situation is different! I got a somewhat fortunate soft landing in China and the position I find myself in suits me perfectly atm. I'm a subject teacher that enjoys my job. I have zero pressure or work related stress.
I've done a lot of research (and a lot of thinking) into getting licensed and moving to an IS. Some might say that I'm just taking the easy way out and perhaps they are right, but after interviewing numerous FTs that work in IS I've decided that it's not worth it. As much as I enjoy teaching, the stress and workload involved makes me think that going 1.5 to 2x my salary would be a huge mistake from my pov. Unlike many FTs in China (hopefully not to sound like an ass), I have established myself in my home country in senior management and would have little trouble finding a position in the future if I did decide to take that path again! I say this as I feel it gives me a lot more freedom and peace of mind than most Fts in this crazy land.
Edit: Sorry to drift off topic somewhat but agents have gotten me, and several friends of mine, much better positions in China than your average banana. And more to the point, these positions would have been unattainable without the assistance of an agent. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
getbehindthemule
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 712
Location: Shanghai
|
| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Blinkers |
|
|
| geosmiley wrote: |
| getbehindthemule wrote: |
| I think part of the problem, on this site, is that many poster think that it is a forum of Uni teachers only and have the blinkers on when discussing numerous topics such as this one |
An alternative explanation for the thoughtful might be that people have learned from their experiences and position themselves accordingly. Naturally, I understand that not everyone is thoughtful. |
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
geosmiley
Joined: 25 Jan 2016
Posts: 62
|
| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: The Point |
|
|
The argument seems to be that if you work with an agent good things will happen and you will maximize your earning potential. I need that agent to get me the kind of job that pays well and allows me to support my family or save for my son's education. Really, China? Examples that have been thrown about include IP and PYP which, to my way of thinking, are often little more than expensive day care, especially if it's a boarding school. Do these types of jobs pay well? I guess it depends on what you mean by being paid well.
Yes, I work for a university but I also work for myself. I more than double my income doing something I like with students I choose. The university provides the apartment, the visa, interesting friends, assistance when I need it and lots and lots of free time. Agents, no, I don't think I'll need one any time soon. However, if you need help killing yourself in some of those high paying jobs agents get you be my guest. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nimadecaomei
Joined: 22 Sep 2016
Posts: 605
|
| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:10 am Post subject: Re: The Point |
|
|
| geosmiley wrote: |
| Agents, no, I don't think I'll need one any time soon. However, if you need help killing yourself in some of those high paying jobs agents get you be my guest. |
Have a feeling the part of the post I cut out was directed at me. My previous schedule had me at 19 teaching hours a week, I am currently at 12 until the summer holiday. I am free in the classroom to do what is needed to get through the syllabus I created using the curriculum I created. The idea I am killing myself is nonsense. If I felt that way I would quit.
I don't think an agent is the answer, I only gave my personal example to answer the OP. Easy as that, nothing more there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
eternalw
Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 10
|
| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nimadecaomei wrote: |
| eternalw wrote: |
Hi,
Will it be ok to pm you to get the lady's name? I'm newbie and would like to go through recommendations, when dealing with a recruiter. Thanks |
Fine by me. |
Hi,
I sent you the pm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
|
| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kalkstein wrote: |
| I have more or less the same opinion, it all depends on what you intend to do. Standard university jobs on their own are not viable for supporting a family with but if you don't have a family and are young/just in it to make some money and travel a lot then they're probably perfect with 4 months holiday + low hours. |
I have a mortgage to pay for my house in Ireland, which is impossible to pay solely from a University salary. TBH even with a language mill working me to the bone, I'd barely cover the payments and have a life to live afterward.
University jobs are valuable because they provide you with plenty of free time and a very stable visa. That free time gives me the ability to make 20 times my University salary doing other things, and since my work is online or external to China, I'm not breaking any Chinese law. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
|
| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:20 am Post subject: Re: The Point |
|
|
| geosmiley wrote: |
| The argument seems to be that if you work with an agent good things will happen and you will maximize your earning potential. |
Really? I don't see the posts here suggesting anything of the sort. Many of the arguments are saying not to trust Agents, but that there are many positions which you might miss which can be attained through an Agent.
As for maximizing your earning potential... Teaching isn't good money. It's really that simple. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: The Point |
|
|
| geosmiley wrote: |
The argument seems to be that if you work with an agent good things will happen and you will maximize your earning potential. [ ... ] Examples that have been thrown about include IP and PYP [ ... ] Do these types of jobs pay well? I guess it depends on what you mean by being paid well.
Yes, I work for a university but I also work for myself. I more than double my income doing something I like with students I choose. [ ... ] Agents, no, I don't think I'll need one any time soon. However, if you need help killing yourself in some of those high paying jobs agents get you be my guest. |
Obviously different types of jobs may suit different needs or preferences and we're all free to CHOOSE a job accordingly and seek an income we find acceptable or sufficient. It's not just about the money, I hope most of us can agree on that. As been said, if you want to get rich, don't be a teacher. Some of us need / want a higher income than others, for some it's a lower priority.
Not what this thread is about, as I see it, and what's the value in nitpicking other people's choices going on about why your choice is so much better than theirs?
I just resigned from a job in an "International school" where I was SAVING more than 1400 USD - about two-thirds of my net salary - a month.
Not a "top-tier" salary for sure, but not bad for a geezer with a 60 hour online TEFL. Yes, it was stressful and yes, schools like that are to some extent little more than expensive daycares for rich kids, and I did leave to look for something less stressful that allows me a more enjoyable working life, but that doesn't entitle me to put down other folks who make different choices than mine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
