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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum legitimate salary |
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| migo wrote: |
I'm talking about advertised salary.  |
Why would advertised salary be different than what you are actually paid?
BY law you are paid for overtime etc, they can not take out ilegal deductions and you can complain to the Labor standards office if the terms are different than stated. |
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guest of Japan
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the OP is trying to differentiate between scams and real jobs. If you actually get a salary, that would qualify as a real job. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Im lost.
would someone please give me an example of what might be considered a scam, and one that might be considered a 'real' job? (considering that real jobs are supposed to only happen once you go home and work for Walmart or the local bank)
I would probably consider GABA to be a bit of a shady scam but teachers still get paid. Not as much as they'd like or maybe later than sooner, but they get paid.
A scam is Bolivian women brought over to work as hostesses pouring drinks and then end up having to prostitute themselves to pay off loans to the yakuza or Southeast asian 'trainees' brought over to work in factories and paid half what Japanese are paid with no holidays, no time off and no insurance. |
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guest of Japan
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Hi PaulH,
I think the OP has read a few stories about recruiting companies that ask for a fee for their service and then don't provide a service. This is what I'd qualify as a scam. The OP is asking about advertised salary as a guide to figure out which advertisements are legitimate.
Your two examples are beyond scams. They are human trafficking and deserve to have a lot more attention paid to them by the government.
About two weeks ago the UN condemned Japan for its record on human trafficking. On Japan today in the PopVox section (always good for stupid entertainment) they interviewed a bunch of people in Yoyogi Park as to how they felt about the condemnation. Every single person missed the point. They all replied about Japan having a healthy sex industry which westerners should not moralize about. One extremely clever young lad said that the sex industry is safe an clean and provides a good income for unskilled Japanese girls. He admitted that maybe it wasn't the best situation for foreigners, but he didn't care about them since they were all disease carrying parasites. Not one person even thought about the Yakuza. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| guest of Japan wrote: |
Hi PaulH,
I think the OP has read a few stories about recruiting companies that ask for a fee for their service and then don't provide a service. This is what I'd qualify as a scam. The OP is asking about advertised salary as a guide to figure out which advertisements are legitimate.
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Personally I think that if you are a wannabe language teacher overseas and trying to get a job through a third party who charges you a fee, not the schools themselves who will handle your application, visa without so much as an interview or a face to face meeting, and you choose to hand over money to them, then you are a turkey just waiting to be cooked.
The visa application does not cost anything to obtain and is obtained through the immigration here. There is no reason that people can not contact schools themselves, instead of buying a mailing list from a recruiter.
The only meaningful way to get jobs here is to interview with one of the big schools that hire overseas and come over on a valid work visa once you have gone over the fine print in your contract. If you get hired you should be prepared to honor your end of the contract and actually get on the plane, if this is the route you plan to go- you get so many wannabes who apply for jobs and play off one school with another to try and get a good deal, hence the need for recruiters to steo in on behalf of them.
if you cant do that then you should save up up the money, buy a ticket and fly over and look for a job in Japan. Everyone seems to be looking for an easy way way out, a shortcut, evn to the point where they ask if a school will pay for your transportation to attend an interview in another province. Foreign teachers over here are a dime a dozen and many schools should have no trouble finding replacement teachers in Japan. Its only things like recruitment agencies that will play on peoples gullibility and naivety and their sense of urgency without going through the big schools. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| guest of Japan wrote: |
Hi PaulH,
I think the OP has read a few stories about recruiting companies that ask for a fee for their service and then don't provide a service. This is what I'd qualify as a scam. The OP is asking about advertised salary as a guide to figure out which advertisements are legitimate.
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Personally I think that if you are a wannabe language teacher overseas and trying to get a job through a third party who charges you a fee, not the schools themselves who will handle your application, visa without so much as an interview or a face to face meeting, and you choose to hand over money to them, then you are a turkey just waiting to be cooked.
The visa application does not cost anything to obtain and is obtained through the immigration here. There is no reason that people can not contact schools themselves, instead of buying a mailing list from a recruiter.
The only meaningful way to get jobs here is to interview with one of the big schools that hire overseas and come over on a valid work visa once you have gone over the fine print in your contract. If you get hired you should be prepared to honor your end of the contract and actually get on the plane, if this is the route you plan to go- you get so many wannabes who apply for jobs and play off one school with another to try and get a good deal, hence the need for recruiters to steo in on behalf of them.
if you cant do that then you should save up up the money, buy a ticket and fly over and look for a job in Japan. Everyone seems to be looking for an easy way way out, a shortcut, evn to the point where they ask if a school will pay for your transportation to attend an interview in another province. Foreign teachers over here are a dime a dozen and many schools should have no trouble finding replacement teachers in Japan. Its only things like recruitment agencies that will play on peoples gullibility and naivety and their sense of urgency without going through the big schools. |
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migo
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 201
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Yes, you're making that fact quite obvious. You haven't said anything that I don't already know in the 4 posts you've made in this thread (including your double post), the people who responded before you already answered my question as they understand it. So, well you can keep responding if you want but it really doesn't matter. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:38 am Post subject: |
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your original post was sufficiently vague as to be almost unanswerable. If people have to guess at what you are trying to mean it means you didnt express your self very well, just adding to the confusion.
Why didnt you mention about recruiting agents skimming off the top if thats what you meant?
What is your definition of a maximum salary? teaching salaries go up to
What do you mean by a 'real' income?
Explain yourself a little better in the beginning and I might get off the pulpit more. |
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easyasabc
Joined: 13 Jul 2003
Posts: 179
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum legitimate salary |
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| PAULH wrote: |
| Why would advertised salary be different than what you are actually paid? |
Because the advertisment is ...........
......wait for it .............
a SCAM!
There are some bad schools out there that would advertise something that sounded fantastic just to attract applicants and then not honour what they had originally promised.
I understood that the OP had probably seen an ad with a very high salary and was wondering to believe whether it was actually for real or not. Is that what you meant OP? I think other people thought that was the gist of the question too because the first couple of responses answered as if that was the question.
| Quote: |
| The only meaningful way to get jobs here is to interview with one of the big schools that hire overseas ... |
I wouldn't describe as a "meaningful" an interview process where interviewers who likely have no teaching/EFL qualifications select people with no teaching skills what-so-ever to work in companies where revenue rather than a quality language learning experience is the focus.
And "only" seems to be far too strong a word here. The school I worked for previously recruits people from overseas by doing phone interviews, checking references and hiring people with some kind of teaching background. In the past teachers have stayed at that school for a long time and enjoyed working there so I'd call that far more "meaningful" than being an entertainer pumped into a language factory. It may not happen often but is possible to find good jobs in schools other than "only" the big 4.
| Quote: |
| Why didnt you mention about recruiting agents skimming off the top if thats what you meant? |
The OP never mentioned agents - someone else did.
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Mike L.
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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"What's the maximum salary in Japan that is likely to be real and not a scam, and after what point is it unlikely to be anything but a scam"
There's the OP's post!!
Utterly too vauge!
What kind of work?
If teaching, what kind of teaching?
What kind of qualifications do you have etc etc etc
If you expect usefull advice you need include this info in your OP!!!  |
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guest of Japan
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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If you have free time you can piece the puzzle together from different threads like a scavenger hunt.
Okay, hint number one everybody. It's not exactly what we do, but we post under its name. Although in this case it's only Japan, much bigger is its claim. When the two clues are placed together, scam is given a name.
Have fun with the hunt. Or not. |
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migo
Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 201
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
your original post was sufficiently vague as to be almost unanswerable. If people have to guess at what you are trying to mean it means you didnt express your self very well, just adding to the confusion.
Why didnt you mention about recruiting agents skimming off the top if thats what you meant?
What is your definition of a maximum salary? teaching salaries go up to
What do you mean by a 'real' income?
Explain yourself a little better in the beginning and I might get off the pulpit more. |
You were the only one who had a problem understanding it, so the problem lies with your lack of comprehension skills, not with my lack of ability in expressing myself.
Like guest of Japan said, if you read the other threads it makes sense, obviously that's something you didn't do. Oh well, I don't care. I got clear answers from several posters here before you even got involved in the thread so the fact that you didn't understand it is completely meaningless and irrelevant to me. |
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monkey_z
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 26
Location: Aichi
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| Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought this forum was to make friends and help each other. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| migo wrote: |
You were the only one who had a problem understanding it, so the problem lies with your lack of comprehension skills, not with my lack of ability in expressing myself.
L. |
Migo, I must say you would make an excellent reading teacher. |
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ranmawoman
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 64
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:19 pm Post subject: Whoa! |
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Whoa guys!!
PaulH, you're usually a pretty level headed guy who has totally helped me out a lot with your posts, but that was kinda mean.. 
Migo, I understand your original post. I guess if they offered you like 400,000 yen or 800,000 yen that would be kinda scammy. I'm not exactly sure what position you are looking for and at, but you may want to see how much money the larger schools are offering, ie NOVA, AEON, etc so that you may get a range of what's kinda normal, or very low or too high.
It looks like some of the people have already answered your question, but it looks as though the rule of thumb is NOT to pay them money to go there. Those are true scams. |
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