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MELITTA
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 9
Location: usa
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 Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| There are so many accents here, unless you speak broken English people tend to assume you are American. I have met so many people who sound like they speak English as a second language only to discover they were born and raised here. |
hmmm. i've never heard of this theory before. i thought mostly americans were the ones who say "we was", or"my microwave is broke" or"i eat eggs this morning" "you cool" or if "i was to be the president"and the list goes on and on...
there's a lot of americans who speak broken english, just watch live tv when they interview ordinary people on the streets and you'll see this a lot. this doctor i work with from moldova speaks proper english, never heard her make a grammar mistake. but her pronounciation is far from any kind of english.
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That you speak Serbian with an American accent is funny! Though I have no idea what an American accent sounds like. I suppose anyone in their own country would feel that way.  |
funny! did you think that the american way of speaking was the "golden zero" for accents?
just listen to most americans trying to pronounce a hispanic name, let's say Roberto. then try to find a native spanish speaker and have them say Roberto in spanish. you will be able to tell the difference on where they will put the accent, and how they will roll their "r,". difference between american and british accent can be noticed kind of down the same path, let's say with the word "water"
m.[/quote] |
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rj
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| MELITTA wrote: |
i thought mostly americans were the ones who say "we was", or"my microwave is broke" or"i eat eggs this morning" "you cool" or if "i was to be the president"and the list goes on and on...
there's a lot of americans who speak broken english, just watch live tv when they interview ordinary people on the streets and you'll see this a lot. |
You have been here five years and most of the Americans you know speak that way? Where are you living? Even in very poor and typically uneducated communities I haven't seen that as common unless it was used as slang.
I don't watch much tv though I do notice that when I catch the news, they seem to make every effort to find the absolute worst people to put on television. And I do mean they make an effort to do it, in my area at least. I've been present for live interviews and I've seen them take the absolute worst of the bunch, anyone who looked presentable and sounded intelligent ended up on the cutting room floor. 
| MELITTA wrote: |
funny! did you think that the american way of speaking was the "golden zero" for accents?
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Well, when you live here it is  What country would I use as my baseline if not my own? Though as I said before, I hear a lot of variety in accents from Americans. I can take a thirty minute drive and hear a much different accent than the one in my current location. |
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MELITTA
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 9
Location: usa
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| You have been here five years and most of the Americans you know speak that way? Where are you living? Even in very poor and typically uneducated communities I haven't seen that as common unless it was used as slang. |
i used to live in MTV land, and now moved to CNNville
FYI i live in johnosn county, the second richest county in the nation. Overland Park was voted one of the top ten places to raise a family. so no worry there, the community i live in is very nice.
so back to your assumption that whoever speaks broken english must be foreigner...what about all the hip-hop stars? are all of them imported??? all the ebonics used...oh yes i am sorry we must assume they are foreigners.
assume makes an ass of u & me |
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rj
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| MELITTA wrote: |
i used to live in MTV land, and now moved to CNNville
FYI i live in johnosn county, the second richest county in the nation. Overland Park was voted one of the top ten places to raise a family. so no worry there, the community i live in is very nice. |
Well, I have no idea where Johnosn County is, I've never heard of it before. Last I checked, the only MTV Land and CNNville I knew of were on cable tv. Then again, if you are relying on television to support the idea that the majority of Americans speak broken English, I'm afraid I can't respond. I very rarely watch television.
What the wealth of the area you live in has to do with anything, I have yet to figure out. Unless you are saying that poor and uneducated people are more likely to speak proper English?
| MELITTA wrote: |
so back to your assumption that whoever speaks broken english must be foreigner...what about all the hip-hop stars? are all of them imported??? all the ebonics used...oh yes i am sorry we must assume they are foreigners.
assume makes an ass of u & me |
You mean to tell me you don't know what Ebonics sounds like? It is not the same as broken English. That would be like saying someone with a heavy southern accent speaks broken English. It may not be proper English, but it doesn't sound halting or stifled as they fumble for words.
Also, I gave an example showing that just because you speak broken English with a heavy accent, it doesn't mean you are a foreigner. However, it is much more likely that people will think you are. You said you speak your native language with an American accent--does that make you American? Or does it merely mean that other native speakers of that language are more likely to believe you are?
With the number of accents here, you simply can't know if someone is a native or not based on accent alone. As evidenced by the Chinese-American waitress I mentioned in an earlier post, even broken English with a heavy accent is not always an accurate indication. However, the better your English, the less likely people are to wonder about your nationality. |
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MELITTA
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 9
Location: usa
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Also, I gave an example showing that just because you speak broken English with a heavy accent, it doesn't mean you are a foreigner. However, it is much more likely that people will think you are. You said you speak your native language with an American accent--does that make you American? Or does it merely mean that other native speakers of that language are more likely to believe you are? |
i never said that i spoke my native language with an accent.
i don't care to present my self as an american (at the state we are in?!?), what makes me american is my american passport, the dual citizenship i have.
btw, ebonics is broken english, heavy accent or no accent.
km@ss |
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J-kun
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 43
Location: The Hell of Pachinko
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:26 am Post subject: |
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It does seem like being able to pick up a decent accent in a foreign language is one of those things that you either have the ability to do or you don't. It also seems like musicians have a knack for accents- I know several who speak two or three languages well.
A friend of mine, who did an MA in TESL, tells a story about how in the last lecture of his class on teaching pronunciation, the prof. told them most research shows all the methods they'd been learning to be ineffective, and that many students simply can't improve their accents/pronunciation no matter what you do.
I think accent is the main factor in native speaker's perception of how well you speak their language. I got lots of compliments on my Portuguese in Brazil because, while I couldn't fool a local for more than a few words, I managed a pretty good, un-gringo accent. |
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J-kun
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 43
Location: The Hell of Pachinko
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| BTW, a lot of linguists call Ebonics a dialect. What's kinda funny is how common it's become among non-African American kids in the US. |
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rj
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| MELITTA wrote: |
i never said that i spoke my native language with an accent.
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Hmm...
| MELITTA wrote: |
| i've been in america for 5 years now, and i get surprised if someone asks where i'm from. i don't rememeber the last time someone "cracked" my accent. i always pass for an american. |
That implies that you are not American and possess some sort of accent.
| MELITTA wrote: |
but here's a catch now. although i grew up bilungual, speaking albanian and flawless serbian (call it croatian, bosnian, all the variations), nowdays i put a bit of an "american" accent on my serbian! |
You say you grew up bilingual, which means two languages. You follow that with naming two languages--neither of which is English. And then you say now you put an "American" accent on your Serbian (one of the languages you grew up speaking), implying this isn't something you have always done.
So which is it, do you speak Serbian with an American accent or did you make that up? Or are you now saying that Serbian is not a language you grew up speaking?
If you are now saying that you don't speak Serbian with an American accent, then you might want to reread your original post in this thread. You not only claim to have such an American accent that you fool all the Americans, but someone else who speaks Serbian (Bosnian) also thought you were an American because you spoke Serbian with an American accent.
| MELITTA wrote: |
last week, i went to a bosnian store abot 20 miles from where i live, and started speaking bosnian ("when in rome...) the lady assumed i was an american born to bosnian parents. she said that i sounded like an american who really tries to roll their "R"s. |
| MELITTA wrote: |
| i don't care to present my self as an american (at the state we are in?!?), what makes me american is my american passport, the dual citizenship i have. |
Well, if you are an American citizen it doesn't really matter if you want to proclaim yourself as an American or not, you are. Not that your passport has anything at all to do with the conversation. You implied you were not American and said you were mistaken for being an American born to Bosnian parents, not me. Apparently, your American accent makes others who speak Serbian as a native language believe you are an American. That alone doesn't actually make you American though, your citizenship has nothing to do with your accent.
| MELITTA wrote: |
btw, ebonics is broken english, heavy accent or no accent.
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Well, I don't know who the authority on this topic is, however I did find a response from the Linguistic Society of America that disagrees with you. In case you don't want to read the entire response, I'll quote the important portion for you, " Characterizations of Ebonics as "slang," "mutant," " lazy," "defective," "ungrammatical," or "broken English" are incorrect and demeaning."
I have heard Ebonics spoken, but I don't personally know anyone who uses it regularly instead of standard English. If it weren't such a part of current pop culture (thanks to MTv and hip-hop), I doubt I would ever hear it. When I hear it used by people I know, it is used the same way they use any other pop phrase, as slang. It isn't their language or dialect any more than Spanish is, but that doesn't stop them from saying hola (hello) either.
Apparently you got offended by something I said, was it the implication that there is nothing unique about being a foreigner mistaken for an American? Or should I have found your accent story a tragedy rather than amusing?  |
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Ailian
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 192
Location: PRC!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| rj wrote: |
| I have heard Ebonics spoken, but I don't personally know anyone who uses it regularly instead of standard English. |
I know many who speak Ebonics/AAVE all the time (as their native or primary dialect) but switch to standard (American) English for work, school, etc. (and I know some who don't even bother to switch). In my experience, switching is common for many people who speak a dialect that is quite different from the standard. |
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rj
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Ailian, I'm sure you are right. I guess I didn't quite make myself clear in my post. 
I live in an area where Ebonics is not common. The people I hear using it are typically teenagers who have been exposed to Ebonics through television and radio. The majority of them are not African-Americans, but rather white teens imitating something they have heard elsewhere and consider cool. They incorporate phrases into their speech such as "you cool" or "you da man" or whatever. It is not something they grew up with, but rather something they have picked up on through pop culture. |
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Lynn
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 696
Location: in between
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:37 am Post subject: |
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I was 16 years old when I first realized there was an actually "American accent". I had been living in Denmark as an exchange student for half a year when I had this realization.
When I was in Japan I could hear an American accent when North Americans spoke Japanese, too. Sorry, Canadians, but when you speak Japanese you sound just as bad as we Americans. I can also hear Japanese spoken with an Australian accent. I also hear myself speak Japanese with an American accent sometimes and it just makes me cringe.
But at least I have good rhythm. I've heard some Americans speak Japanese with an American rhythm and it is SOOO difficult to understand. It sounds like they are speaking English.
Back to non-native English speakers. I agree, some people do just have an ear or a knack for languages. This is something the director of my previous school did not understand. |
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Ellis
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 19
Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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For those of you who support the fact that having an ear for music gives one an ability to nail accents, I couldn't agree more.
Just the other day, immediately following an advanced conversation class I was subbing for, one of the students stopped me at the door to say that he had detected a slight British accent in my pronunciation. Said I, "Are you joking. I was born and went to college in Brooklyn, New York. If anything, I speak like a "New YAWK-UH!" "No, No," he insisted, "you've got a decided English tone--although very subdued--in your speech! You're not REALLY from the UK, are you?" I replied, "No, I'm not...but MY PARENTS are. You HAVE to be a musician!" Yes, he was. And then I said, "YOU must be from Hong Kong." He stepped back in utter surprise, and said, "You weren't ALSO a musician!" I said, "Yes I was...for 20 years before having become an EFL instructor." WOW! We soon discovered that were both percussionists, and we've got an appointment to meet at my favorite coffee house next Sunday. GOD! I LOVE LANGUAGE COMMUNICATION!!! |
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