Job Discussion Forums

[denise]

Teaching a foreign/second language is not like teaching a "real" subject like math, history, etc. It's not even like teaching the language to native speakers. I get the impression that most EFL/ESL teachers understand the distinction, whereas "normal" teachers do not. I do consider myself a real teacher, and I've got enough little bits of paper to back me up. Still, I know damn well that I would not be a very effective history/math/art/science teacher, because those areas are not my specialties. I also know that history/math/art/science teachers who teach in their home countries could not do my job.

Capergirl, having a degree, four years of experience, two certificates, and (most importantly?) a professional demeanor, which you've got, does make you a real teacher. I think the people who question you just don't understand that language teaching is a very specialized field.

And welcome back!

d

[Mike_2003]

If you perform your duties successfully and earn money from doing so, you are a professional.

[Atlas]

Universities are exceptionally brilliant at making their product appear like the sum total of qualification one needs to obtain, and very adept at discrediting other non-systematic means. But one thing uni fails to impart is the personal factor in one's work, that may make the difference between good teachers and great teachers (or anything else).

The downside to this very appealing, simplistic, systematic, "official" reliance, is that it institutionalizes a person's thought and allows them to forget their own creativity and judgment in preference of the conventional wisdom. Teaching is more than imparting facts. It needs innovation, and the only innovators are those who are able to see beyond convention.

University likes to instill fear of action until you've had ten years of it paid education. That is utter marketing hypnosis.

That which you seek to become, you already are. Obviously Capergirl and others like her are not impostors. Maybe some of us have a lot to benefit from further education, but this in no way negates the professional competence and capacities of the person. In the end, no matter how one is labeled, one is capable of breaking all the rules and succeeding anyway.

That's something you don't learn in university.

[waxwing]

[chinagirl]

I hadn't thought about the idea of people associating a teacher with only teaching kids, but that would explain people's attitudes. The point that you are teaching adults at a university makes you an instructor, or later on if you go for a PhD might make you a professor, and no one should have a problem with that description. It's really just semantics.

Capergirl, listen to what everyone is saying. You are indeed a teacher, and you don't need to prove it to anyone!

[kev7161]

There's a lot I learned in my training which is also useful in EFL. Mostly it has to do with psychology and learning theory.

I agree with this statement. A good (or maybe even a great) teacher obviously must have some skill in the subject he or she is teaching. Whether you have a BeD or a TEFL certificate doesn't matter - - - when it comes to TEACHING THE SUBJECT. Probably people that are TEFL certified are better suited to be a FT than I.

Some things I may have that perhaps someone without an education degree does not:

1. Classroom management - - let's face it, some of my Chinese high schoolers behave much like elementary kids back home. How do I control these kids? Establishing rules, working the psychology, having proper reward/punishment systems, knowing that maybe all I have to do to calm a student is walk over and stand by his desk while conducting a lesson, or if I see a note passed - - to simply take the note while never pausing in whatever I was saying . . . . all these things and more are things that I learned in my education classes and practicuums. Naturally, some of these things can be picked up habitually by an educator (with or without the degree), but I've been able to use my knowledge from day one (or maybe day two) to achieve my goals of classroom management very quickly. Now, after saying all of that, it is still MUCH harder here due to the language barrier; and maybe I'm just blowing smoke!

2. Teaching theories - - not being foreign language certified (but I do have a degree in education along with several years of experience), I'm not sure if they teach you theories. Some of them are purely hogwash in my opinion, but some seem to have a bit of validity (the ones I remember at least). The "heirarchy of needs", for example, is one I carry with me. Are the basics taken care of? Are my kids fed, well-rested, comfortable? If so, they are likely to be more susceptible to learning. That's why I bought space heaters for my freezing classroom. A cold student is just cold and that's what he thinks about more than anything else (in my opinion). The space heaters don't provide a heck of a lot of heat, but at least there is the illusion that they do!

3. Organization - - One thing I try and do in my classroom is be organized. This is another important area that my teaching experience has taught me and also what I learned while obtaining my degree. This runs from the way a class is set up to preparing a spread sheet to record grades in my computer to having lessons prepared a week (or more) in advance. Also, do I have all the teaching materials I need and, if not, how can I get them? I'm not saying having an education degree makes one better organized in the classroom, but it can certainly help get there faster.

So, I would NEVER say I am more qualified to teach English as a foreign language. I've had my share of frustrations and disappointments while teaching in China. All I'm throwing out is that there are some areas surrounding the actual teaching part that may have been enhanced due to my experience and education.

[moonraven]

A note to Veilledsentiments: I don't know which planet you're living on--but your blurb says USA, so I assume it's the same one I live on.

I entered university in 1962 with a math and physics scholarship, received my MA degree in 1968 and started teaching at a university that same year. I returned to graduate school in 1971 and received my last degree in 1972. At no point in my schooling did anyone mention that I should get a degree in Education because I was female.

Incidentally, law school is for AFTER you get an undergraduate degree--and I have several female friends my age or a little older who went to law school in the mid-sixties and have been practising law for many years.

Ludwig: I think I am a little sorry that you asked about TEFL certificate folks. I think maybe I should contextualize my response so that folks will understand where I am coming from, and not just think I am a snob:

I taught for 5 years at the university level in the US--only when I could afford to (most of the time I was working in business in order to have a decent income, as I was a single parent)--as well as directed the Adult and Continuing Education division of a university. When I came to Mexico more than 10 years ago, I figured I would have to return to teaching if I wanted to stay here. Which I did. I also directed a language school for several years--training approximately 25 Mexican teachers (I have talked about why I train Mexican teachers on other threads). Those teachers spent 2 months in unpaid training--and several of them were "real teachers"--that is to say they had studied in the normal schools and were teaching in either public or private schools.

The pre-service training that Harmon Hall gives is equivalent to that of a TEFL certificate course--or maybe a little more rigorous, as team teaching in regular classes in the school is required. At the moment of finishing training, one is ready to be given groups, but continues to receive training. Over the years, if one sticks with it, he/she may become a skilled teacher--or he/she may not become one--it isn't easy when one's field is limited--BUT teaching ESL or EFL is an opportunity to create a dialog and focus on content designed to open students to being conscious of the world they live in and their role in that world. If you take that opportunity you increase your chances of becoming a teacher.

The past few years I have been working in the university sector in Ecuador and Mexico, and I have had to hire ESL teachers. I have received hundreds of e-mails on the order of "I am just finishing my CELTA, and....", despite my specifying in the position announcement that we were looking for someone with a Master's degree and 5 years of teaching experience. When I receive e-mails like the one I quoted above, I hit DELETE. This is not to say that there are no "born" teachers out there, or that having a graduate degree and five years of experience guarantees good teaching.

One of the first workshops I usually give to experienced teachers begins with this question: "How do you know when you've given a complete class?" Teachers usually go into a state of shock when they hear that, and are unable to answer. That tells me they don't REALLY plan their classes, and that they don't have students apply what they've learned in EVERY class.

I suppose this is has been a very circumlocutive way of saying that having a TEFL certificate--from my perspective--is like having a ticket to get on the bus. It shows that maybe one has the intention of becoming a teacher, although it can just as easily mean that he/she wants to bum around the Third World for awhile and get paid for it. It is not, however, a license to drive the bus.

[skeptic]

In response to denise,

Don't sell your profession short. Teaching English is far more complicated than teaching math, or history, or fact-based disciplines that require only presenting unchanging formulae, dates, and figures. Teaching English as a Second Language is exponentially more complicated than teaching English as a first language. Any qualified ESL teacher could readily teach an English class to natives, but could a trained English teacher with no ESL experience function well in the ESL classroom? I'd say not. If they could there would not be such an insatiable demand for K-12 ESL programs in the US schools as they try to assimilate the increasing numbers of immigrants. ESL is a "real" profession, but, unfortunately, only those of us who profess ESL know it.

[denise]

[lajzar]

[Mark100]

Formal qualifications give teachers some theoretical background in teaching and in some cases a limited practical background via some practice teaching.
This is the beginning of the journey.
Classroom experience will build on this background and hopefully after a few years you will have a well rounded teacher.
The better the initial training the easier for the teacher to make the transition from trainee teacher to fully fledged teacher.
Having said all of that there are some people who are natural communicators and people managers and others who despite knowing all the theory and having loads of practical and theoretical experience do not have the people skills to make a successful career out of teaching.

[once again]

If someone learns from your instruction: you are a teacher.

[Chan]

I have my Master�s in Education and am certified in TESOL, English, Social Studies, and French. Teaching ESL and a �regular� subject, as Denise said, is not the same thing but I have had the opportunity to both and so I know it can be done. Once, I was teaching abroad as an English literature teacher, but I had also had a lot of students who were still struggling with the English language. So, I had to do many modifications to accommodate my linguistically diverse students. It was very difficult at first trying to teach ESL students and fluent English speakers at the same time, but it was definitely fun. I�ve also taught ESL to Cuban, Haitian and Vietnamese (adult) refugees and I have taught ESL in a language school and as a tutor to Japanese students whose language skills needed improvement so that they could pass the TOEFL.


Starting in August, I will be teaching a combined class of English and geography/world cultures. Because of my background, I�ve already been told that I will be getting a lot of ESL students. So, I feel very comfortable in teaching ESL or a �regular� subject. I�m not an expert by any means, but I feel confident that I can do either. I actually recently turned down a job in Mexico in an international school because I had already accepted this other position.

Just because I have a degree in Education does not mean I couldn�t do anything else or was �scraping the bottom of the barrel.� It also does not mean that I am better than someone who chose another route to doing what he or she loves � teaching. I chose a different way because my goal is to teach in international schools rather than to teach at a language school (for example).

My point, after this very long ramble, is that I think you are a real teacher, Capegirl. You are doing what you want to do. There will always be naysayers who will try to put you down. All you can do is try not to listen to them. More than likely, they�ll never understand and nothing you do will ever be good enough for them. There is no shame in what you have and what you have accomplished. You should be proud! There are many who would love to have the opportunities, experience and qualifications that you have. The only reason for you to get a degree in Education would depend on your career goals. Do you want to teach in Canada at a �regular� school? Do you want to teach in a K-12 international school? If not, then I don�t think you really need an Education degree. It�s all a matter of what you want � not what others say.

[willy]

A degree is only a paper that says you have studied there and been a good student; having nothing to do with the reality of life. I remember many teachers many teachers from my school days most not so good and a few have left a mark that will be with me for life. They were all teachers with a certified by the state.

When I look at a resume I look first at the schools you have worked for and then how long you have worked there and how many years you have been teaching after that I want to see a lot of experience in life not one job for the last 10 years! Lastly I look at your education.

after all a teacher is someone who teaches NOT someone who juges you to be unfit.

and how many of us will realy help out a new teacher? 1 out of 50?

[Capergirl]