Job Discussion Forums

[Tonester]

Kovac,

I'm just curious (I'm not starting nor have any intention of starting a p-ssing content) as to how long you had to study and whether you studied Japanese formally because I do find that people who do study it formally have a higher possibility of proficiency but on the other hand, if studied informally there is an element of reality to it. Most of those people who say idiotic things like "I just picked it up in 6 months and I can speak 3 languages already" are the biggest tossers. It takes at least 2 years before you even start to make sense (correct me if I am wrong) or fully comprehend what someone is saying.

Imagine if they instead of just doing the JLPT, imagine if they had to attend a lecture in Japanese or something? Those tossers might then get some humility and stop trying to say "I'm better at Japanese than you, look at me; JLPT Level 1...."

[bisca]

I don't understand why memorizing katakana and hiragana in 3 hours is not possible. I did it, as did 12 other exchange students from all over. Basically what we were told to do was write each uh.. syllable 5 times and then go to the next. After 5, repeat to see if you can remember all 5. Continue and repeat . At the end of about 20, another test of sorts. The teacher would hold up the letter and we had to say which syllable it was.

Continue til over. All of us managed to at least remember katakana and hiragana on that day and in about three days, it was ingrained in our heads. Maybe it's harder for english teachers because they don't live with a native japanese family?

[kovac]

Well, I think if I measured the time I 1st picked up a japanese textbook to current day it would be 2years and 3 months.
Actual study time !? god knows....I must confess Im lazy at best, back home I used to attend a 2hr "hobby" class once a week for about a year, so when I came here I had very rudimentary skills to get me by and make me look like a show off in front of those that werent interested in studying (incidentally and interestingly I was osctricised a bit among gaijin in my area as being "that guy that can speak japanese...show off !")

This year (my 1st year in japan) quite frankly its all been a bit slap dash and studied when I could, I found eikaiwa lifetyle to be incredibly draining and hardly studied from books at all. Recently I got an ALT position and find I have at least 1 hour a day free un interupted to study, which is allowing me time to study grammer properly, as I can blether away for a good 10 mins but my grammer is all to pot.

I havent a clue as to what my level is, I used to gauge in peoples responses when speaking...had moved from "jouzou" to "umai" to "bikkuri" in terms of responses but still my Japanese is shit, Ive started looking at JLPT test structure, but to be frank I cant be knacked with the challenge of it all....saying this I have attended a job interview in japanese and can get by understanding about 30% of TV and day to day conversation...but at the same time I forget the simplest of vocab, but remember obscure advanced words at the same time....*sigh* its a funny old game....

Im a hapdash student, some days im good, somedays Im great, somedays Im rubbish, somedays Im hellish...

The main thing that grinds me is my own frustration at forgetting vocab n grammer but mainly (why I started this post ) is those that seem to be obvious fibbers when it comes to study duration and ability continue to fib and blag about how easy japanese is...when it isnt....anybody who continues to perpetuate this myth of "hiragana/katakana in 3 hrs" is welcome round my house to memorize 92 pictures with sound associations anyday (Ill make dinner too, then I can smash the empty plates over their heads when they fail to memorize all 92 screaming "usotsuki")

Ive met people like those mentioned in previous posts (JLPT 1 or 2 in 1 year) but like others have said they just couldnt communicate...mebbe a bit like the fat, wheezy, spotty boy in chemistry class in school who could memorize the periodic table, but couldnt tie his shoelaces...

I posted this because I saw a quote recently saying" It took me 6 months to be able to hold a conversation, a year to teach a NASA science project in Japanese and just over 18 months to talk about politics live on NHK TV"

it made my blood boil..that is IMPOSSIBLE ! mebbe I need to come to terms with my own stupidity and inability but 18 months and discussing politics on NHK ! ok there are VERY linguistically talented people out there....but with learning Japanese I think there is a lot of bullshit flying around....

Im afraid to admit Ive joined the gang..when Japanese people ask me how long Ive studied I say "ahhh just one year"...it seems to be as common a trend as lying about your duration of study as working as an english teacher...(which is immensly embaressing)

[bisca]

I don't understand! I'm not lying! We did it in 3 hours. Maybe we had an amazing teacher? Maybe all 12 exchange students happen to have amazing memory? 3 hours were all we were given (stingy organization wouldn't give us more) .

I never claimed that we mastered Japanese. In fact , most of us didn't even get pass the 4-kyuu or 3-kyuu but we did manage hiragana and katakana.

[kovac]

So why does it take Japanese kids to learn both from 1-nensei to 2-nensei ?

anyway Bisca...from previous posts I picked up your of Chinese / Malay (?) descent so your not a stranger to eastern languages and have closer affiliation and understanding of eastern languages, Im not saying they (E.asian languages) are the same, but there are common threads run through, ie Korean grammer is similar to that of Japanese, and Chinese; well Kanji...Hiragana and katakana themselves are derived from kanji...

(I can just see the fireworks fly from this one...)

anyway I dont want to grind, congratulations you did kana in 3hrs...I still, like many others Im sure, feel like real dumbasses when peeps like yourself smugly declare the 3hr thing...the whole thing just doesnt sound realistic....I mean how long did it take you to learn periodic table, or other such things ?

People who can manage to learn kana in 3 hrs...more power to them...congratulations, but dont state the 3hr thing like its a benchmark standard...as it most certainly is not.

[guest of Japan]

The periodic table was much easier than kana.

Actually memorizing kana can be done in three hours. I personally memorized hiragana in three hours, and katakana in another three. The trick is retaining it. Because I don't use the scripts much I still make mistakes with characters. Three years after putting all those pictures into my short term memory, I'm not really much better at them. OK that's not quite true, but I still need to review often.

I think I did the periodic tabe in about an hour. I'm very good at memorizing. Memorizing and mastering are very different things. Ask your English students.

[bisca]

No, except for one, none of us knew Chinese .

Malay grammar is quite different from Japanese and as is obvious , so is English.

Anyway, the exchange students were from Australia, the USA, Mexico,Brazil, Sweeden and France and of course Malaysia. So far, all with no problems.

I suppose it is possible that because the Mexicans, Brazillians, Sweeden, the French and Malaysians have been exposed to languages other than our own, it's easier to pick up Japanese. But then again, the Aussies and Americans had no problem picking it up in 3 hours too.

[kovac]

Ironically looking back at my first post, my original observation has been set bedrock fact in concrete by some of the last few posts....*sigh*

*SMARP-SMARP-HUFF-PUFF* (and other self congatulatory geek-puffing-ego-inflation sounds)

"ahhh well mr kovac silly pants, since posting this I mastered 324343 Kanji in only a matter of days WHILST solving many ecological energy conservation conundrums at the same time...."

Hiniku suru....

*sigh*

Message boards are pointless..I give up, I should study instead....