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spidey
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 382
Location: Web-slinging over Japan...
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 Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:41 am Post subject: |
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Thanks chi-chi. I'll keep that in mind. 
Anyway...to get back to the person who initialy started this string...
For every 1 negative experience there is out there...there are probably 10 or 20 positive experiences to go along with it. You seemed to be receiving only negative feedback. If you bring a positive attitude with you, you will have a great time. If you happen to have a bump here or there along the way...well, just chalk it up to experience and move on.
It IS really up to you.
p.s. By the way "chi-chi"...is your name spoken from the Japanese language or....  |
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king kakipi
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Chi-chi
I think that Japan is a great country in which to take a 'reality check'. Sure there are dodgy employers, but there have been plenty of dodgy 'ex-employees' before them ('once bitten.....')
....Being humble goes a long way; I 'brought to the table' 4 year tertiary/ post grad and 15 years' teaching experience but I didn't go for the old Western 'pick me, I am great' pitch; I just played it enthusiastic but humble.
The work soons adds up, believe me (I earn a lot now, when I started back in Feb, it would have been easy to be negative but I 'weathered the storm')
Also, I have heard many kindy jobs want women over men........ |
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king kakipi
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Chi-chi wrote
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| and counting travel time as "break time" on the paper contract/schedule, which indeed it is NOT |
Travel Time is not usually paid/compensated for in any (teaching) job to my knowledge, so what's the big deal? At least you get paid your train fares to work in Japan (unlike in many other first world countries). Also,I remember a four hour car ride to school in the snow (NOT in Japan); when I got there, the head teacher said "I instruct you to go home" (it took nearly 5 hours to get home!) but had I not made the trip I would have lost a day's pay!
Next thing, you will be wanting to get paid when interviewers have the 'pleasure' of interviewing you!!
Hey, Welcome to the Real World, chi-chi!! |
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chi-chi
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 127
Location: Back in Asia!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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When your travel time puts your total work time to 50-60 hours a week, and you don't even have time to eat lunch during the day, I think that one could do better elsewhere.
But hey, Japan is the land of the gods, and you guys are the worshippers.....who am I to argue? Ya'll make the Korean expats look downright normal. |
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king kakipi
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 353
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Amen  |
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Marika
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:54 pm Post subject: loving japan |
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Hey ,
XIII
I'm living in Kitakyushu and working at a fantastic school here as well. I know you've heard a lot of negative things although most of the people I spoke to before coming here had wonderful things to say about Japan. But obviously to each there own.
I've only been here for a couple weeks and I tell you it's amazing. I got a lot of helpful information from this site. Good and bad. I can tell you that my idea of Japan and what it would be like has been surpassed.
The other english teacher here is fantastic and has been here for 5 months so I know the school I'm teaching at is as good as my first impression.
The people I work for are so amazing, as are the residents of Kitakyshu. I just can't believe how friendly and out going they are.
Just do your research and you'll be fine. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Here is one of my favorite sites for the Japan newbie and those thinking of coming here, even for the last poster- you can always learn something you didnt know before.
http://thejapanfaq.cjb.net/ |
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homersimpson
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 569
Location: Kagoshima
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:40 am Post subject: |
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What kind of person goes to the
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| ... the world's most expensive country |
without a job lined up first and then is baffled by how he/she gets screwed over by shady employers (generally in Tokyo)? And
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| forced to get an extension on my tourist visa |
? Talk about planning ahead! |
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J.
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:29 am Post subject: Who goes? |
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Any person needing a job who has probably been reassured by her employer that "that's the way we do it here" or something similar and who has never been to Japan, might not have had the time or opportunity to do ehaustive and expensive Internet research and who is relying on the word of her future employer who KNOWS that he can take advantage of this type of person and who usually looks for just this kind of person to hire. Now not all bosses are shady, but some are, and those guys are very skilled with the reassurances and little employment traps. So the best advice is to have some backup plan in case it doesn't work out...or go to the top schools where they may overwork you but they probably won't try this kind of trick.
The school I used to work for would try this on, without telling people that there was a "trial period". If they didn't like you, you were too assertive, or you failed to stand up to the heavy workload or sign up enough clients, you would be strung along for up to 6 months while they found a replacement and then given 1 month's notice or less to clear out. All the while they would not let on that they were hunting for a replacement so people would sometimes be left without savings to return home. There was no bonus. I saw it happen to at least 3 teachers while I was there...not me because they "liked me". However, they played all kinds of mind games with staff including eavesdropping on lessons without teacher's knowledge, writing down everything said by the teacher in a lesson. lying, charging over and above the rent and other deductions which were questionable. They relied on staff not knowing their rights and also if I may say it, being too tired and demoralized to pursue them most of the time. I think there are some okay "schools" but I would never under any circumstances work for one again. Aside from the fact that they tried to screw me, I felt sick about the tricks they were playing on my students.
I know where chi-chi's coming from and blaming the victim doesn't fly with me. |
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Lovechild
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:01 am Post subject: |
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Were your friends talking about New Zealand or the U.S.? You should be careful when ever you go abroad even to Japan. I have heard of some schools taking advantage of people. However, there is Labour Board in every city, and if they no help, you can find a lawyer though local city hall.
Best bet is to try to get on with JET! They pay will and help you adjust to the culture by offering you language classes and on going workshops. |
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homersimpson
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 569
Location: Kagoshima
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| I know where chi-chi's coming from and blaming the victim doesn't fly with me. |
What victim? What eikaiwa school forced you at gunpoint to board a plane and head to Japan? And what "expensive" Internet research are you referring to?
More proof that obtaining that bachelor's degree does not guarantee common sense. |
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Lovechild
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| homersimpson wrote: |
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| I know where chi-chi's coming from and blaming the victim doesn't fly with me. |
What victim? What eikaiwa school forced you at gunpoint to board a plane and head to Japan? And what "expensive" Internet research are you referring to?
More proof that obtaining that bachelor's degree does not guarantee common sense. |
Very well put! Easy to blame other instead of learning from mistakes! |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:16 am Post subject: Re: Who goes? |
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| J. wrote: |
| Any person needing a job who has probably been reassured by her employer that "that's the way we do it here" or something similar and who has never been to Japan, might not have had the time or opportunity to do ehaustive and expensive Internet research and who is relying on the word of her future employer who KNOWS that he can take advantage of this type of person and who usually looks for just this kind of person to hire. |
Its pretty obvious that a person who is applying for a job from overseas and doesnt live in the country and know what the job situation is like has less choices and the employer is in the drivers seat. They hold all the aces. Someone with no money, no experience and no qualification and applying form overseas really doesnt call the shots here. If they want a job so badly they should save up the money, buy a plane ticket and spend a month looking for a job that appeals to them. They can only take advantage of you if you let them.
I might also add that a majority of temployers look for flexible easy going people that are quick learners, are not going to rock the baot and will do what employers ask of them. they dont want to employ people that question their motives when they offer them a job. Obviously an employer has some self-interest when seeking cheap subservient labor from overseas but you really have to pay your dues when you first arrive here rather than expecting the world to owe you a living.
| J. wrote: |
Now not all bosses are shady, but some are, and those guys are very skilled with the reassurances and little employment traps. So the best advice is to have some backup plan in case it doesn't work out...or go to the top schools where they may overwork you but they probably won't try this kind of trick.
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Some bosses are shady, which is why its probably a good idea to do some research on the company, ask to speak to teachers, get someone to look at the contract for you. in many case its impossible before you arrive which is why joining a union is a good idea, but most people dont when they first arrive as they think 1. I dont need one 2 I could lose my job 3. They start to believe what the employer tells them that its part of Japanese culture etc.
| J. wrote: |
| The school I used to work for would try this on, without telling people that there was a "trial period". If they didn't like you, you were too assertive, or you failed to stand up to the heavy workload or sign up enough clients, you would be strung along for up to 6 months while they found a replacement and then given 1 month's notice or less to clear out. All the while they would not let on that they were hunting for a replacement so people would sometimes be left without savings to return home. There was no bonus. I saw it happen to at least 3 teachers while I was there...not me because they "liked me". . |
So you worked for this school for six months, saw your employer was a thieving conniving crook and continued to work for him, even though 3 teachers left? Did you leave your principles at the door or was you paycheck more important? Its pretty hard to criticise your employer and the way he treats teachers while you have your hand out for money and pretend everything is hinky dorey for you. You knew things were bad but did nothing about it.
PS If you have a work visa your contract is a for a year. Why do people have to go home when they can stay here? the employer can either give you a months notice or salary in lieu of notice. What is the crime in that? What did the contract say? Employers can not make you do anything that is not legal or is not in the work contract. Did people actually read their contracts? One month is plenty of time for people to find work.
| J. wrote: |
| They relied on staff not knowing their rights and also if I may say it, being too tired and demoralized to pursue them most of the time. I think there are some okay "schools" but I would never under any circumstances work for one again.. |
And why didnt staff know their rights? What did teachers do to find out what their rights were? Ask people on the Internet? call a union? visit the labor standards office. Or did they just roll over and accept what was happening to them, or were they just naive and scared or losing their jobs?
| J. wrote: |
Aside from the fact that they tried to screw me, I felt sick about the tricks they were playing on my students.
. |
What schools do with the students is none of your business if students feel they are being ripped off they will go elsewhere.
Sounds like you didnt do your homeowrk, and extremely bad judge of character or a willing accomplice to sit there while 3 teachers leave, until you became a target yourself. |
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chi-chi
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 127
Location: Back in Asia!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:21 am Post subject: |
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To answer everyone's question, I started out in that situation from having to leave Korea immediately, due to a Japanese person who was my boss at my Korean job not sponsoring my visa, and me almost overstaying. I was sick of Korea and wanted to give things a go in Japan-and I did as much research as I could, considering the state of my health at that time.
I simply wanted anyone new to know that there is the possibility of this happening. Yes, it is extremely unusual, but yes, it can happen. And until you have a working visa, there is no legal recourse.
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Never judge someone or you just may end up in that same situation!  |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| chi-chi wrote: |
To answer everyone's question, I started out in that situation from having to leave Korea immediately, due to a Japanese person who was my boss at my Korean job not sponsoring my visa, and me almost overstaying. I was sick of Korea and wanted to give things a go in Japan-and I did as much research as I could, considering the state of my health at that time.
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Never judge someone or you just may end up in that same situation! |
There have been hard luck stories of people being strung along for 6 months on tourist visas and being chucked overboard without being sponsored or being found by immigration to be working illegally.
s--t happens and some employers will string you along for a visa, but the crux of the matter is it becomes your responsibility to ensure that the paperwork is in place, and immigration has everything they need to issue a visa and follow them up until you get the processing stamp in your passport. Employers may say that they have submitted docs to immigration when they havent, so its up to you to make sure from immigration that your visa is being processed. You are especially vulnerable when you are in a new country, with little money and going on trust. I have never worked in Korea but my belief is that hagwon employers there tend to be less scrupulous than ones in Japan, so maybe we are talking about different things.
Immigration in Japan or Korea doesnt care about your personal problems unfortunately and whether or not you dont have any money, or whether you are sick. Callous as it sounds, with no work visa you dont have any rights here, and getting the visa should be your first priority. |
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