Job Discussion Forums

[justme]

Wow, I'm impressed! That's almost quicker than Nevada! I had a student who was married for one hour, then he and his new bride got in a big fight. They immediately applied for a divorce, and it took 18 months to go through!

[dmb]

My friend got divorced here. He lost the house, the kid and had huge legal bills after. English speaking lawyers are very expensive.

[Ebenezer]

Oh, please! Don't let me get started on that! I am a girl (despite my nick) and I have been married to a Turkish guy for 1 and a half year. Ok... for those who are in love, let's just establish a basic premise: It passes... and please don't get me wrong, I do love my husband, but after a while we just realise we love ourselves more and that's just the way things should be. Let's work with some possibilities: 1)You, your partner and his family don't give a damn about religion and you all know it very well and everybody accepts everybody else. Perfect, go for it! Maybe, every now and then you'll have to meet some of his conservative relatives, but considering it won't happen to often, you can live with that.
2) You and your partner don't give a damn about religion, but his parents do (even if they don't look extremely traditional). That's where problems start. But anyway, you don't care about religion, so you can even say you converted to make them happy... can you live with that and all the implications (if they are not very traditional, the implications won't be so unberable, they'll just make sure everybody knows you've converted)? Of course, (if you are a woman) your skirts will just never be long enough, your trousers will ever be to tight and your t-shirts always too low-cut, even if in your country these are the kind of clothes people would use to go to the church! But you are in love and you can live with that, can't ya? At least that's what you think, but after a while you'll see it sucks!!!
3) You don't give a damn about religion, but your partner does, even though he doesn't pray 5 times a day, he just fasts during Ramadan, avoids alcoholic drinks (which is fine), criticizes other countries and other people, but deep inside he's nice, isn't he? Isn't he cute?? Aren't you madly, deeply, desperately in love? He's just young, he needs time... and you don't care about religion, do ya? And deep inside you just don't like Bush or Blair, either, do you? And you had a French friend who really was a pain in the neck! Who cares if your children will be raised as Muslims? You don't, so that's fine... Have you made yourself clear that you are not really into religious stuff? Has he accepted it? Have you made him sign what he's saying? Have you made him promise he will never call you G�vur? (a offensive term for the infidels, hideous non-muslims). In that case, go for it! And may God help you... You'd better start believing something, for you'll need it.
4) Now, if you are included in this last category... just run, Forest, run... You do care about religion, you are a strong Christian (or something else) and you dream about your partner's conversion... Isn't this relationship in God's plans?? And your partner just happen to think the same way and his family thinks the same way, too! My friends, listen to me, I belong to this 4th category and I just tell you something, just run!!! Or, if you are "in love" (isn't this love thing just perfect??) at least make yourself very clear and say you are not becoming a Muslim, that you have your own beliefs and you want to be free to practice them and tell your kids about them, knowing that the decision will be made by them, themselves, when they're grown-ups. Has your partner accepted it? Have you made him sign it? Has his family accepted it? Ok... you'd better not try it, but I know you won't listen to me, after all you are in love and you'll do it anyway... just send me a message later and I'll be your friend, 'cause you'll need one.
And, last but not least, jokes and truths apart, yes, his/her parents will try to control your lives and in lots of cases they will have the last word. I can't really talk about men marrying Turkish women, for the obvious reasons, but Turkish men are very attached to their parents, grandparents (pray that his grandparents are resting in peace... just joking...) and if his parents tell him to jump, he'll probably ask how high... but don't worry there may be exceptions... my husband doesn't happen to be one... laughs... but we have been down in the mud, but through it all we're still surviving, he's cute sometimes...
Good luck!

[justme]

Duly noted!

I know you're talking about religion problems, but for me the issue lies more with the fact that in Turkey there is a big blurry area where religion and culture overlap. Even if he and his folks aren't particularly religious in their trappings or practices, there are still things, like the ayip-ness of knee length skirts (ok for those nubile schoolgirls but no one else!) and tank tops (we have no sympathy for the excessively sweaty!) that are also a matter of cultural belief, and of course every aspect of Turkish culture is PERFECT and INFALLIBLE, so don't even try to argue.

The twisted webs we weave for ourselves. I need a drink.

[dmb]

Does anyone know of any stories where a Turk purely married for the visa? The only case I know of is from the Gulf. My excolleague's reason for being in the Gulf was because he married a turkish girl then as soon as they got to the UK she did a runner with all his cash!

[Gregorio]

Something was mentioned about the divorce rate being 50% between Turks and non-Turks. Is it surprising that the divorce rate of Turkish people to Westerners (Americans and Brits) is 50 % when the divorce rate in the United States and the UK is 50%? When this is the case, why should anyone be more cautious when marrying a Turkish person than someone from their own culture? Just my two cents or pence worth.

[vre]

I think we were kinda guestimating on the 50% thing. I suspect its higher per capita but you do, in fairness, have a point, Gregorio.

Ebenezer, I really like your style of thread writing. Welcome to the forum by the way.

[Ebenezer]

Thanks for the welcome!
I guess religion and culture overlap everywhere in Turkey (or is it just my husband?) He once told me to ask the pastor of my church where his parents and grandparents where during the �anakkale war... I really cannot see any connection between the 2 things, my pastor could have even fought in this war and still be a Christian, but it's just too much for my husband to realise... laughs! And about the patriotic thing, poor Ataturk, I really admire the guy, if it wasn't for him Turkey could be like Afghanistan now! But anyway, if your partner is too patriotic, just avoid watching the news with him and don't think about buying the newspaper for it's all it may take to start a huge fight about culture, religion, wars, etc... laughs... tell me about it!

[Baba Alex]

Well my experience is very different, maybe my wifes family are very modern, or maybe it's because I couldn't give a flying shit about what anybody thinks of religion.

However I do often get enquiries from many of my family friends and students who are obssesed by this 'inter-religious' marriage. They seem unable to fathom that we are both atheiests.

My advice is ignore those you can and humor, patronise, or simply lie to those you can't. And get the hell on with it.

[justme]

I too welcome Ebenezer. Don't hold back!

I do try avoid patriotic and political topics, but it's inevitable cuz he's really into history and just can't resist explaining all the reasons, going back 500 years, why Turkey is so much better than any other country. And sometimes I just can't resist goading him. But it's a lot like talking about football-- saying that Beşiktaş is a cooler team than Galatasaray inpires almost the same passion as saying America would beat Turkey in a war. All of them silly discussions, really, but at least there's a predictable point of agreement at the end so everyone is happy.

As to Ataturk, I appreciate, among other things, that he made it so we don't have to learn the Arabic alphabet. But at times I do get annoyed that he's the only guy in their history who is revered and who gets any credit for doing anything. Sometimes I'd like to see a statue of a poet or another leader. And the reverence for him borders on the bizarre. For months in Bakırk�y there's been a group in the Meydan holding up pictures of Ataturk and encouraging people to sign a thing stating they believe in the greatness of Ataturk and his thoughts and that they support every measure he ever enacted. Or something of that nature.

From the Department of Redundancy Department?

Oh well. As to the divorce statistics, it's alway been this bleak anywhere I've ever lived, which is why this is the first time I've even remotely considered getting married. This one is worth the trouble.

[vre]

Yes, you're right. I've had and am sure will have my fair share of frustrating and annoying experiences with him and his family. I am still gonna keep it going until I have made my decision.

On a lighter, Friday note , I would much rather my kids be brought up here with safer, more innocent childhoods that last much longer than uk, real close family units, lots of love and closeness, healthy food (even if I am the one that will have to cook it) at a dinner table, a sense of moral standards and respect much wider than in Uk, a genuine interest in extra curricular activities (no, not getting an adult to go into the local off license to buy a bottle of the cheapest cider and hopping the fence of the local school with some boys for a bit of fun and still not 16 years old yet) no i didnt ... honest.. erm..... and less materialistic WANTS (although its very evident here too but nowhere near as bad.)

[Ebenezer]

Hi, Justme, thanks for the welcome, too! I can see your fianc� is a lot like my husband, my husband also loves history and I'm more into literature, linguistics, philosophy, which he hates... yes, this historical discussions really suck...By the way, I was wondering if your mother-in-law has already given you the white piece of cloth to prove your virginity and boasted about still having hers (I mean, the piece of cloth, not her virginity... hehehe..) Well, don't worry, your mother-in-law may not do it to you, but mine did...
I'm in a bad day... and schools are starting on Monday... yes, I work at a high school... how worse can it get?

[Baba Alex]

[vre]

Baba Alex, I was just being nostalgic but you've made me feel really old now.

P.S I love cider

[vre]

Ebenezer

I hope to Allah that if I get married, they wont expect that piece of cloth, since we've been living together for two years! infidels!