Job Discussion Forums

[2 over lee]

I think Roger means an L ( tourist visa) is the easiest visa to get in your OWN COUNTRY.
Once you get to China your employer should be able to CHANGE this visa for you.

I suspect the only place it is easy and affordable to get a year long L visa is HK.

Simply get of the plane catch the A21 bus to Nathan road, go to either Chungking mansion, which is number 54, or Mirridor mansion, which is number 8?. In these, large buildings are MANY guest houses which say quite clearly in English at their respective receptions, �China visa�( F�s and L�s available for periods of 1 month, 3 months, 6 months and possibly a year).

You can get the visa the SAME DAY or if not a day later. One night in HK will not break the bank, maybe you could crash at, � �, place.

[burnsie]

Actually an F visa IS for business people who are providing training and lectures so technically it is correct BUT this visa is only for a short period of time (30-60 days or so).

I would not apply for a tourist visa (L) as if the school does want to change to Z visa in the future it's alot easier on an F visa than an L visa.

[Roger]

Business visas are not issued normally for lecturers and instructors! Any job holder must have a work visa, full stop.

Business visas are for purchasers, investors, employees of JVs and foreign-owned businesses on temporary assignment to China - think of engineers, mechanics, technicians, chefsspecialist factory hands, etc.

Business visas can only be legally obtained if you have credentials -though in HK they don't vet you.

There is no qualitative difference between business visas and tourist visas. IT's an old mty that you get a job more easily on a business visa. It's not true.

As I said elsewhere, businessmen also have to pay tax, and if you stay in China for 183 days or more you will have to be able to explain what you were doing in the country for such a long time. Teaching will be demed an illegal activity!

[wowzers]

Roger,
"Business visas are not issued normally for lecturers and instructors! Teaching will be demed an illegal activity!"

Were the exclamation marks necessary? and the"full stop"?

Glad you're not in charge!

[cmoseley]

[burnsie]

Check out www.speedbusiness.com.cn

Quoted from their website:-

A Business Visa (F) issued to foreigners who are invited to China for business visit, research, lecture, scientific-technological and cultural exchanges.

I should know, I wrote the website!

Also check out this link to the Chinese consulate in Washington. Which says the similar thing.

http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/hzqz/zgqz/t84247.htm

(F)Visa is issued to an alien who is invited to China for a visit, an investigation, a lecture, to do business, scientific-technological and culture exchanges, short-term advanced studies or intern practice for a period of no more than six months.

[Galum82]

ROGER: I think you are making me more paranoid than I should be...but I know your enthusiasm is of good intentions. Therefore, thanks for the warnings. When I went to go get my visa 2 days ago at the NY consulate, I was asked a few questions by the visa representative regarding the purpose of my stay in China. I told her that I was a guest lecturer. Stating that she approved my application and issued me a F-visa. Also, F-visas are NOT ONLY for business people. They are also for guest lectures, scholar exchanges, etc. I am positive because I have two friends that are currently doing their Fulbrights in China and they told me that some people were issued a F-visa because they fell under the category of educational exchange/visiting scholar. They weren't able to obtain a X-visa because they weren't actually students. So, therefore they fell under the vague category of the F-visa...

BURNSIE: Thanks for the reassurance. Do you know when the National Holiday vacation ends?

[Ludwig]

[Galum82]

Ludwig: I am only signing a 6 month contract and I do not see any purpose in obtaining a resident book...

[wowzers]

Ludwig, Roger et al seem to be the only characters going by the book. The Chinese government is fully aware of the status of foreigners.
At least in Guangzhou they have decided to expand the definition of visas including tourist and business.
You can cite chapter and verse but the reality is something else.

Roger knows this but he refuses to acknowledge the status quo.

Ludwig is so biased against the mainland that you must take what he writes with the proverbial grain of salt.

[Roger]

There have always been people that tried to bend the rules, to take short-cuts and what not; I also know through experience what is possible and what potentially costs you a leg and an arm and then, some more!

What the Chinesed mean by "lecturer" is possibly something of a far fuzzier definition. Talking to Chinese in English is - yes, you guessed it: giving them a lecture! Experienced it in various English Corners!

But the consulates don't normally issue you with a business visa unless you have business to do in China for which no CHinese business is available. Say, the HYATT Group opens a new five-star house in Kashgar, then obviously, the chef, the Maitre d'H, and some managers have to be present on opening day, and perhaps, beyond, but not to stay for months. They will train local staff, possibly by someone who is there on a work visa.
What are "scholarly exchanges" in China? I would like to get an answer from Fulbright!

I once listened to a "lecture" delivered by a Swiss hospitality professional who recruited students for their famous hotel and tourism management school. He was on a business visa.

The difference between a tourist visa and a business visa is that the tourist doesn't need any invitation, whereas a businessperson comes, in principle, on an invitation that in the socialist old days used to be extended by a DANWEI. They would house and perhaps feed him, but he would come at his own expense. nowadays, you apply for a business visa to go to the Canton Trade Fair; what you need to get this visa is an official invitation from the organisation. You then stay at a starred hotel.

I am taking a strictly legalist view on this matter, with good reasons.
First of all, why should there be a work visa, which is only granted upon presentation of a medical exam that declares you as HIV-negative? Businesspeople don't have to pass the HIV test because they are not e3xpected to rub shoulders with working CHinese in the same fashion and for the same duration as we do.

Secondly,
to insist that the Guangzhou PSB handle visa questions more leniently is misleading if not disingenious. What does that say about the PSB anywhere else/// Nothing! You can still be booked anywhere in China for working illegally. The PSB can raid your home, waylay you in the streets, visit your school and demand to see your documents!

A work visa is location-specific, while a business visa is not. tell me, would the CHinese knowingly discriminate against holders of a legal work visa that are found to be working and residing in a locale that's not covered by their work visa?
I can tell you that you are liable to deportation and a fine if found to be working without adequate documentation. My boss sent me to a distant province to work there in his new branch. Since I had a work visa, he thought I was entitled to working and living there. that was, of course, wrong; at 10 p.m. one evening, the cops were waiting in a bar they knew I was going to visit one evening, then escorted me back to my apartment.
The rest is history; I was put under house arrest and made to understand I was in breach of two legal provisions, one being that I worked in a place not covered by my visa, while I had never even been reported to the PSB.
My boss didn't deny any of his guilt, and was made to pay a heavy fine. It could have backfired to my detriment, though, but the cops in that city were, and still are famous for being relatively fair and levelheaded.
My boss never forgave me and fired me - for his own mistake!
And you guys are telling me he could have saved all this trouble by working me on a business visa??? LOL!

[burnsie]

Rodger,

What you are talking about happened 8 years ago! I think things have changed a bit from then.

Also, get over it! Yes, things went bad. Accept what happened and move on.

[wowzers]

Roger,
The more you post the more I am convinced you are a knucklehead!
Yes, you had problems years ago.(in another province)
Yes, you are talking from the book.
What you continue to avoid is the REALITY of today.
I repeat, the Chinese government(and that includes the PSB) are fully aware of foreigners teaching English in Guangzhou and environs on tourist and business visas yet they continue to allow these visas to be issued.
This is China!
If they wanted to put a stop to this THEY would.
The simple fact that they don't should tell you something.
They want foreigners here.
They want them to teach English.
They don't care whether you have a working visa or not.(full stop...lol)
This is China!
If they didn't want it, it would not happen.
You can pull out the rule book and sputter the regulations all you want but that does not change the present situation.

Roger, if you want to continue flogging this dead horse you can do so without me.

[Galum82]

O GOSH! WHAT HAVE A CREATED??!? haha...I think it's time to cool down people...

ROGER: I am sorry about what happened and once again thank you for your words of advice. However, I must agree with WOWZER and BURNSIE, from my experience in China...they NEVER go by the books...hahaa...hey, it wouldn't be China if they did.

Also, I am Chinese myself, I am just hoping that I will blend in with the rest of the people there and avoid any inspection...hahhaa...

[latefordinner]

With all due respect, Galum82: