Job Discussion Forums

lagerlout2006 · Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 985

What EF likely mean is they hire native speakers with different accents---not that they hire non-native English speakers...

I'm not sure though...And I would never apply.

Ludwig · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:03 am Post subject:

But that is not good enough for this new troll. I obviously hit a raw nerve!

Good.

deezy · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:34 am Post subject:

As long as you have the qualifications EF will employ 'native-like' speakers...in other words, people from Poland, Europe, Russia, ...wherever! They even have some 'native-like' speakers who are DoS's. Don't care what the website says. That's what they do. And I don't think it's a bad idea.

And there are some awful EF's, I know.... but there are also some good ones. As there are MacDonalds...the one in St. Kilda, Melbourne, is terrible, with filthy toilets, and the one along the Westgate freeway is palacial. Same with the EF's...you just need to check 'em out first. As you do with Wall Street and any other conglomerate.

And I know quite a few EF staff who stay a lot longer than a year...from choice. One or two bad eggs...bla bla.. there's 56 EF's in China, they can't all be horrendous and awful to work for, with terrible conditions, etc.

I reckon you've got to be real bad to get the sack, because EF hate having to replace a person, it costs them heaps. They try every way possible to keep a teacher once placed, unless that teacher is a real misfit, can't teach, gets drunk every night and tries it on with every female in sight.

Norman Bethune · Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Posts: 731

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

2 over lee · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:42 pm Post subject:

If I could ignore the English First element of this thread and concentrate on Shenyang...in what I would advise for you tazzers:

tinythoughts wrote:

2 over lee · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:52 pm Post subject:

Talkdoc wrote:

Talkdoc · Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 696

deezy · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:47 pm Post subject:

Talkdoc, I'm horrified with what you say about the adulterated drugs...I've just recovered from a bronchial asthma /chest infection (caught in Shanghai). I was first put on a very strong broad spectrum drug, and I ended up becoming 'agitated, paranoid, not sleeping' - soon as I came off them (and they didn't work!), I was okay, and luckily I had some amoxycillin which I'd brought with me from Australia, and I decided to use those rather than a packet I could buy in the local chemist. So glad I did now! Dread to think what would have happened.

Although I wonder what went into the drip I had in hospital...

And you've all put me off Shenyang... Sad

sounds worse than London's pollution and I can't handle that too well, I get a sort of bitter taste at the back of the throat when I go to London, plus my asthma awakens.

EF bashers...please...'some' EF's are really well run, good facilities, etc. Drinking is endemic in China, as is smoking, it's so cheap. Two days of the week are hectic at the EF I'm at...that's Saturday and Sunday, when we have all the rich little darlings to teach all through the day, and my word a jug of beer goes down well at the end of those days! Otherwise, we have no daytime teaching during the week, just evenings from 6 to 8.15 pm to adults and a few more tinies, and two days off.. Of course we also have meetings when we get lonely <grin> and training sessions...

My husband lectures at a university in Melbourne, and teaches between 21-24 hours a week. He only gets paid for the hours he spends in front of the students, most of whom are Asian. And he's currently spending all his spare time marking assignments and exams. We don't think this is at all unusual, he's glad of the work, and enjoys it (except the mountain of admin paperwork of course).

I don't know, maybe it's my age, maybe I've grown up with a different work ethic. I'm certainly confused when people say they teach 16 hours a week and find that tough going, or 'enough' or "I wouldn't work more than.." Maybe someone could explain this phenomenon to me.. Even adding lesson planning of - let's be very very generous - one hour per hour of teaching - that's still only 32 hours (yea, I can count, too).

deezy · Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:23 am Post subject:

All the teachers where I work have degrees, and TEFL/CELTA. However, we did employ a 60 yo American teacher during the summer, and he didn't have teaching qualifications, although he'd been teaching for 6 months elsewhere so he had experience. He was probably the best teacher you could possibly imagine. He worked hard at his lessons plans, he had excellent rapport with the students, and was a great guy to work with.

I've met some pretty terrible teachers, who have heaps of qualifications. Before I would employ any teacher, I'd talk to them for at least an hour, get references, ask lots of questions, and even then, who knows once they get to China whether they are going to fit in or freak out.

I'd like to think, having come from an HR background, that I am astute enough to figure out if a candidate will be 'right' for the job, but mistakes get made...on both sides! I do believe in honesty though: I tell them, long hours in comparison to other schools, kids, lots of them, (yuk), but good accommodation, good facilities, etc. The teachers at my school are currently working between 15 and 21 academic hours a week, - an academic hour being 40 minutes (don't ask me why!). During the summer months that increased to about 24-29 academic hours. Oh, and 5,000 yuan a month for the first 3 months, 5,500 yuan after that, rising to 7,000 with experience. The DoS's now..they have a teaching load on top of management...but let's not go into that!

When a candidate applies for a teaching job, it is inherent to ask as many questions as possible, get as much information as he can, research, ask through this forum and others; I can't understand why anyone would want to come here without trying to get as much info as possible, just turning up? Tasser is doing the absolutely right thing to check out as much as he can, pity more don't do it!

Not knocking the hours you do, Doc...wish I could earn what I'm earning and do those hours...maybe I should check out the universities when I've finished my contract. I didn't just come here for the money, I wanted the experience, but money helps. (I've been rich, I've been poor, and let me tell you, rich is better).

oatgnist · Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 90

2 over lee · Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:02 am Post subject:

Lee_Odden · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 172

deezy · Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:35 am Post subject:

Lee-Odden you haven't let me down! No, neither of us have, both of us have been in other positions before moving into academia. My husband was a Project Manager, and a mathematician, bla bla, usual degrees etc from years ago since we're both in our fifties, he was a contractor and all contracts were suddenly wiped with the particular company, and, not easy to get work when you are a 50+ manager, except at the Universities and that's what he does, and loves it. Yep, he finds it much much easier as he used to work horrendous hours. Ironically he was recently offered a position again with that company, at exorbitant salary, and I begged him not to take it as he is so much happier.

Yes I am qualified, and 'professional' means you get paid for it, and I did. I do not have a Masters and it's only recently that you've needed accreditation to practice as a Counsellor in Australia - until now (in fact I don't think the law has come in yet) you can take a weekend course in Gestalt therapy then open up shop and charge $70 a session, so I'm all for accreditation. My quals are in HR, I moved into workplace counselling quite by chance, and counselling in general.

And I didn't say I always employed degree qualified people; I try to employ people who can do the job...as I mentioned, the American guy who came for the summer was a terrific teacher, with no quals. I talked with him a long time though...and got references. Personally I don't consider a degree necessarily makes a person a good teacher.

I also tend to agree with you about the exploitation in most private language schools. They are there as a profitable enterprise, and having read of other options, maybe my original plan, which was just to 'turn up' and find something once I got here, wouldn't have been such a bad idea. I might have found something which paid me more, (and if you check out the EF site you'll find that some of us earn considerably more), and gave me more self-actualisation, perhaps. But China is a big place, and at least I knew that if I didn't like this I could get on the first plane back (didn't know I'd break my ankle and not be able to travel!!). So I took the (what I thought was) 'safe' option, and at the moment I have few regrets. I actually don't know what other teachers in general are earning, I have friends who are earning a lot less than 5,000 yuan a month but I've not heard of any teachers earning a huge amount more, unless they teach Business English. Maybe you're keeping those jobs under your hat, Lee. But if there are positions at universities here that pay more, then I might persuade my husband to join me, once he's past 60 and probably dumped by the academic system in Australia as they tend to do once you reach that age.

By the way, I love the way you call me a different name each time you write. I hope you continue with the creativity Smile

It seems I am always going to upset you somehow, and I don't even try! Should I start to try?

Lee_Odden · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 172