Job Discussion Forums

[saroq]

I don't believe that Liam is expecting free legal advice from the ETA but I think Once Again is suggesting that the ETA should provide this.

The ETA is an organisation run for and by member teachers. It needs the support of everyone and cannot give out free advice to people who don't want to support it.

Once again should offer to run around find a lawyer and pay for this for Liam since he thinks this is something the ETA teachers should be willing to do.

Let us know how it goes once again. I'm sure there are plenty of other teachers out there with problems who would like you to do this for them too. Or are you suggesting that if you won't do this you're not to be trusted?

[once again]

You sound upset enough by my comments and defensive of the ETA to have some sort of connection with ETA saroq.

And for all your postulating on the meaning of my comments, you are wrong. But I will take responsibilty for the misunderstanding.

If the ETA has been set up to help people, then it should have no problem in offering initial advice about a subject for free. There are many lawyers offering free initial consultations. If the ETA is non profit making then it would have no problem following suit.

I fully expect that if I called up the ETA and said that I needed some advice, they would indeed give it to me over the phone if they could. I would expect them to ask me to consider membership if they answered my question over the phone there and then, and I would expect them to ask me take out membership as a condition of their doing any extensive work on my behalf. All of the above scenarios seem equitable to me.

On the other hand, If I had a problem and they said they could not even speak to me on the phone about it without me first having membership, then I would deal with them no further.

If someone asks me to help them with their English and it takes up little of my time, I would not dream of asking for payment. I am a teacher.

If someone wants me to work full time helping with their English, I need to be paid.

I didn't suggest that the ETA was money grabbing, I suggested that lawyers were.

[Ricci]

[quote="Peaches En Regalia"]You ask about rights. If it is not in your contract that you will receive housing allowance then, equally as obviously, you will not receive any."
Firstly, I do not believe for a second that Liam was bemoaning his lack of housing allowance, merely telling us his situation.

"You say you are a NET, but if you were a NET (that is, an EMB NET) you would get the allowance paid into your account along with your salary every month. All because a school has chosen (or, been forced) to employ you (whatever the title given to you) does not, or, rather, should not, allow you to compare yourself to the EMB NETs."

I have a friend who is in a similar situation to Liam, ie he is an EMB NET who has been lucky enough to get the job purely on his own merits, and excellent teaching practice, NOT merely because he owns a piece of paper (a PGCE). I am not, btw, undermining the PGCE, I am a PGCE holder myself and as such know that there are many holders of PGCEs who are crap teachers and many non-PGCE holders who are shockingly brilliant in the classroom. It is unfortunate that people like Liam and my friend are not given the opportunity to gain full benefit of the NET scheme, just because they have no PGCE. Despite this, they are EMB NETs, paid by the EMB and employed by the EMB, only they are not purely in it for the money, unlike other people who, I fear are tainted with the cynicism brought about by realising that they were not meant to work in schools, becaused the kids can't relate to them and their teaching.

I hope, Liam, that I have interpreted your situation correctly.

[Peaches En Regalia]

Oh dear, are there people earning more than you? Tut, tut, what shall we do?

Thanks for all the bold type; I could not have read your contribution without it. Now run along and grow up.

[321 Tommy]

Well said Ricci. Ludwig is a fool.

[Peaches En Regalia]

I wondered how long it would be till the trolls and worms appeared out of the woodwork in order to attempt to cause havoc. I also wondered how long it would be till little cretins like the above resorted to childish name-calling.

I was only surprised by just how short a time it actually did take in the end!

Run along now and grow up. If you can not handle a touch of gentle criticism as regards your underlying attitudes and assumptions then HK is clearly not for you.

[Peaches En Regalia]

Liam wrote, "Because I lack a PGCE, I also lack the housing benefit and any other perks you wish to name that come with the regular NET scheme."

Then the obviously mentally deficient Ricci butted in with, "[...] I do not believe for a second that Liam was bemoaning his lack of housing allowance [...]."

Does Ricci � who, it should be noted, is not even in HK (and who is also 3-2-1 Tommy (this was Tommy trying to calculate her intelligence quota)) � teach at a primary school or does she attend one? Either way, it is strikingly clear that she could certainly benefit from some courses on reading comprehension.

[echo2004sierra]

Some people view the HK EMB NET scheme deal as praise-worthy (Peaches en R..), but others point out their problems within the HK EMB NET scheme (Liam).

Is it accurate to say that the NET deal is flexible in that it accommodates NETs without the specified qualifications, but with equivalent qualifications, encourages NETs to attain the specified qualifications, and penalises those who do not have the required qualifications?

It seems that some NETs have to tolerate varying degrees of work-place hostility from HK principals and colleagues. Is this generally experienced?

NETs who are in an alien environment and in need of advice would do well to do some background research on ETA before paying out HK$1,000 for membership of an organization that may or may not be able to help in a particular situation.

[321 Tommy]

Yes, I am name-calling. Ludwig is a fool. What could that possibly have to do with you? Ludwig is a fool.

�Run along now and grow up. If you can not handle a touch of gentle criticism as regards your underlying attitudes and assumptions then HK is clearly not for you�

Why does he always tell people to grow up? Being as realistic and grown-up as Peaches En Regalia must be a very humourless and uninspiring existence.

[ozman]

I find Liam's posting disturbing. It's a worry that he hasn't got his housing allowance, but his employment doesn't seem clear cut.

Liam says he signed his contract with the EMB but then goes on to say "my contract is, I'm led to believe, the standard EMB NET contract, with, however, the extra benefits crossed out."

Have you found this out for sure Liam?

Someone else posted a comment, quite rightly, that you might be at a DSS school. Have you found out if you're at a DSS school? these are not governed by the EMB.

Also the term 'NET' is not exclusive to the EMB scheme. Just look in the SCMP and see all the adds for "NETS". They just mean any native English speaker.

Many schools find they have excess dollars and decide to employ a NET themselves. This has nothing to do with the EMB NET scheme. Maybe this applies to you Liam.

Liam you need to find out exactly who is employing you, and under what terms. It can't be on the EMB scheme if you're not getting housing. Once you've signed a contract, there's nothing you can do about it anyway. But I doubt if the EMB would be undermining the scheme themselves.


Ozman

[Scott in Incheon]

I think the NET scheme can hire you and not give you the special allowance. If the EMB deemed you a resident of Hong Kong, then they wouldn't have to give you the special allowance. The allowance is for those who are residents of other countries.

I don't know if this applies to the OP. But if he is a permanent resident of HK...then he would not get the special allowance. Or if he could not prove residential ties to another country...I am not sure if he would get the allowance. This would apply to the other perks as well, I think, the moving allowance for one.

[Liam]

Ok, my original post may not have been too clear (Still no need to resort to name calling - 'mentally deficient'). I thought in more recent posts I made it clear that my contract was not the problem and it was not legal advice I wanted. If it were legal advice I was looking for, I fail to see how my posts could be interpretted as asking for 'free advice from an organisation I am not even a member of'. I thought I made it clear that the original few replies to my post were both useful and appreciated. End of story.

How this has resulted in name calling, discussions of my contract when this has been stated as NOT a problem, and the return of a negative atmosphere that has recently been absent from this forum, is beyond me.

Welcome back, Ludwig/Peaches.

Thank you again to those whose advice has helped, and thank you to those asking questions about my situation in order to help. I am happy with my contract, not willing to discuss it, and getting on just fine at school. Minor glitches are in the past. Good bye.

I now hand you over to Ludwig/Peaches who will no doubt correct my spelling, relocate my misplaced commas, and tell me that 'Hong Kong is clearly not for you'.

[Peaches En Regalia]

I never claimed the EMB NET scheme was "perfect". Liam is not on the EMB NET scheme anyway (come on, the EMB does not "cross out" parts of a contract! Even if they did, what sort of a cretin would accept such a 'contract'?).

Yes, if you can not show that your normal place of residence is outside of HK then you will not receive the special allowance. This is as the allowance is for those that come to HK in order to work on the EMB NET scheme.

The EMB does allow some onto the scheme without the usual qualifications (in exceptional cases), but they do have to gain the required qualifications and this is written into the contract. That is fair enough; this is not Mainland China!

Yes, "some NETs have to tolerate varying degrees of work-place hostility from HK principals and colleagues", but is this not the case everywhere? Furthermore, some have to endure similar conditions in other countries and only get paid a pittance. My experiences on the NET were superlative and I have no complaints. But then, since I was so busy for 4 years, I saved in excess of $450,000 � cash.

[Ricci]

Much as I hate to give Peaches (Ludwig, whatever?) any satisfaction in replying I feel the need to clarify several points.
1. I am not 3,2,1 Tommy. I do not have the time nor inclination to invent more than one internet persona. (Though Tommy, I appreciate your shared sentiments).
2. Where did Peaches get the idea that I am "not even in Hong Kong"? As I got the MTR to work this morning I am pretty sure that I was in Hong Kong. As I listen to my school's tannoy announcements in Cantonese I am pretty sure that I am in HK. If I am wrong, Peaches, please let me know?
3. If I started a sentence with "I do not have a cat" this does not mean that I have any regrets as to not owning a cat, it is a description of my situation. Just as Liam's description of his situation is not having the housing benefits of other NETs.
4. I do not work in a primary, I never have and never will. I work in a secondary school here, just as I did at home in the UK. If Peaches likes to invent jobs, lifestyles, places of abode for people, etc, good luck to him, he's got to do something to pass the time of day.

[Peaches En Regalia]