Job Discussion Forums

[Rod K]

Hi guys!

I have that problem right now. I came on a tourist visa, as my current employer promised to get me a working visa. As I got the tourist visa at an airport upon arrival to China, it is not the usual 3-month visa, but a one-month one. I was promised to receive the working visa in less than a month, but they lied. I've been here for almost three moths now, being given "next week" promises all the time. Then, a week ago, I realised that my employer had done virtually nothing to get it. The reason is very simple. I am not a native speaker, and they don't want anyone in town to know it. Otherwise they would have gotten it in no tie, or so they say. My contract says it's up to them to handle this problem, and I don't see what I can do in such situation. I don't seem to be able to just walk away, as the fine, reputedly RMB 5000, is more than I make here or can get (borrow) anywhere else. If I paid it, I would have had no money to buy my tickets.

My employer seems to think there are two options.
1) Wait until the winter break, and then their friend in PSB could get me a valid working visa. This sounds a bit cheesy to me, as I don't really understand how this could be done through a friend, although I heard that "guangxi" is very important in China, I can't figure out the extent to which this absolute power can stretch. Moreover, I see no reason why this couldn't be done in the middle of a semester.

2)Go to Hongkong and get a business visa, with the fine and most of the travel expenses paid by the employer.

There might be some other solutions but I can't think of any.

Also, on a side note, what's your idea of an hour in a contract? Is it a so-called academic or teaching hour of 40-45 minutes? Or is it a 60-minute hour? We seem to be having a disagreement with this with my employer, as the contract just states the number of the hours.

Thanks in advance for any help you could possibly offer:)

[Roger]

You seem to have a lot of questions at this juncture, my friend!

The calamitous state in which you find yourself - no, DON'T got to Hong Kong because that's the surest way for your employer to get rid of you and avoid the penalty himself. Once you are at the border you will have a hard time convincing immigration officers that your boss is to blame!

But it is worrisome that he has dawdled for 3 whole months. A day of ovrstaying your visa costs sevral hundred kuai; to my surprise I learnt today that depending on your nationality, it can cost less than RMB 500, but in my own case, it would certainly be 500 a day! In your case, and with ar4ound 60 days of overstaying I don't know what the going-rate would be! Anyway, it's your boss' predicament, and he should now act rather decisevely!

The remuneration for your hourly work depends on a lot of circumstances. Basically, you should have a monthly pay, and your working time should be specified in a weekly workload of contact hours including breaks between them; typically a primary school period lasts for 45 minutes, a secondary school period 50 minutes, though at kindergarten you work only 30 minutes.
Some private employers try to pay you for teaching time only; this is abusive but you will be able to do absolutely nothing. Try to get as many periods in a block as possible!

I would refer you to the sticky for newbies and the sticky on contracts. If your employer hasn't signed a contract with you, nor paid for your medical exam he can wiggle himself out of his dilemma with the PSB - he can pretend not to know you!

[yamahuh]

Glad I found this thread, I was going to start one re: this very topic.
My employer has promised to arrange for my working visa but has yet to do it. I am currently working my 5th week on a 90 day 'L' single entry visa and I'm wondering what happens with the 'Z' work visa.
As far as I can discern I have to provide my employer with my passport in order to get the 'Z'. He hasn't asked for it yet, but my current visa doesn't expire until mid January.
Is the work visa something that is stamped into my passport or is it a separate document?
If it is a separate document does the employer keep it or do I?
If I keep it can it be used for future employers or does each position require a new visa to be issued?
Is there a time limit on the work visa?
Am I obligated to have a Foreign Expert certificate?
Again, is this something I can use in the future or does the employer keep it?

So many questions, I know

[Roger]

If your tourist visa expires some time in JANUARY, I would say your boss must take matters into his hands no later than DECEMBER - since January will see a stampede across the country called National Holiday, which lasts around one month (officially a few days, but every school takes time off for up to one month). This also is the time during which the PSB may be working erratically.

Before your boss can apply for your work visa he must have documentary proof that you are physically fit and not an HIV-carrier. You must go to a clinic before applying for the visa.

The visa these days is a printout that gets stuck on an empty passport page; it used to be a stamp.
But some folks have been saying now for one year that the visa no longer is so important; if you qualify you get a residence permit in lieu of a visa covering the entire period of your sojourn here. I don't know how true this is, but people have been reporting no problems when crossing the boundary to or fro the PR of C (to Hong Kong, for example).
Make sure, though, you get a M (multiple entry) work visa - or else you will have to apply for a re-entry permit if you plan to leave the PR of C during your stint.

[yamahuh]

I've read other posts that say I shold be provided with a "Foreign Expert" certificate as well (even though I still have problems thinking of myself in those terms). Is this in addition to the visa? Is it mandatory or at the discretion of the employer?

Thanks for the info above

[Wol]

Yamuhah,

If the School are legit then they should have no trouble getting hold of a work Z visa for you. If they are putting it off then they simply cannot get one (therefore they should not be employing foreign teachers) or they do not want to pay for one. If you are yet to sign a contract then I would recommend looking for a new job elsewhere as soon as possible and trying your luck with a new school.

The work visa would take up a page of your passport... Each new job would require a new work visa. There is a time limit on the work visa. Mine runs out in December (my contract runs until the end of December). If I were to extend my contract then my visa would need to be altered. However, with the work visa you should also obtain a foreign experts certificate, which is a small, red book with your personal details on and relevant stamps. With it should be a temporary residence permit, which is a small, green piece of paper. These are as important as the visa and are a legal requirement for working in China. My FEC also runs out in December, however, my residence permit runs for about a year.


Rod,

With regards to Hong Kong, When I arrived in China (through HK) I was informed that I'd just need a tourist L visa. On arrival at my school (1000 miles north of Hong Kong) I was informed that in order to have my visa converted to a work Z visa I would need an F business visa. Back to HK I went (travel and F visa cost at my own expense!). Back to the School, and two weeks later I was told by the School that they were unable to convert my visa. I had to leave.

In short, only a Z visa will do. According to Chinese laws, an F visa does not permit you to work as a teacher in China. Until you get the Z you will be working illegally. If the authorities find out it will be you that pays the fine, not the School. If you can, and have yet to sign a contract, then I'd strongly recommend moving on.

On the teaching hours front, I also had a wrangle with my current school about this. On arrival, I was under the impression that 'teaching hours' referred to 'lessons' i.e. 40/45 minutes. The School had other thoughts and my schedule had me teaching 35 lessons a week (the chinese teachers here teach 15 lessons). I told them that this was unacceptable and employed the classic chinese assertion that there had been a 'misunderstanding'. They saw the error of their ways and reduced my timetable to a reasonable amount of hours (It's fair to say that the common interpretation of 'hours per week' around the TEFL world is 'teaching hours', which translates as lessons).

I hope that my experiences can somehow help you guys out...

[yamahuh]

OK, great info and suggestions.
I get my first pay next week so once that has (hopefully) been squared away I'll approach the owner about the work visa. I know one of the other foreign teachers already has his work visa and temp res permit, so I imagine that everything is above board. Hopefully there won't be any issues.

Thanks

[Rod K]

Hi everyone, and special thanks to Roger, Wol and Naucziciel (he PMed me). I am not just saying that, I really mean it.

After my fight with the employer, I was told I should call her first, as she is the boss and wouldn't do it. However, she was the one that woke me up with a call this morning, saying that tomorrow (on Monday, that is) we would go to the PSB and try to sort the matters out. Nice move, thought I, but after she hung up I thought that it could turn out not to be so nice. As far as I understand, the Educational Buro and the PSB up to yesterday knew nothing about me (while there was a program about me teaching at that school a while back). She also told me I wouldn't have to say much, that it's up to her to do the negociations. Could she be up to something here? My Chinese is very limited, and I may not understand what she is going to say and she could actually try to put the blame on me (I might be overreacting here, but... who knows?

Wol, you recommend moving on, which I, given the circumstances, am surely considering, but is it possible to do that without paying the fine, having overstayed my L visa ?

[Wol]

Rod,

Sorry for the delay in replying. So, did you visit the PSB with your boss? If so, how did it go??

On the packing up and shipping out front, breaking a contract is definitely not something that anybody really wishes to do but, as you have already confirmed, this is exactly what the school is doing to you. By not arranging for you the necessary legal documents to enable you to remain here, they are breaking the contract. Leaving the country though would not be an option as your 'illegal' time here would be immediately apparent. The best option would be to look for more work in China in order that another school can 'legalize' you.

If you wanted, I could give you a couple of leads with regards to looking for another job...

[Rod K]

Wol,

I've been to PSB three times so far, and they seem friendly enough not even to ask me to leave the country! My boss is apparently trying to pull the strings for me, and says he will pay the overstay fine, as well.

I wrote the statement, and answered some questions. The boss insisted I put the blame on him, which wasn't too hard for me to do. I don't know what to make of all this, but at least the authorities know I am here.

Thank you all for your concern.

I will keep you posted on further developments.