Job Discussion Forums

[ChinaMovieMagic]

Mandu,
The rather rough criticism of your informal writing style was unwarranted...but unfortunately not surprising. You are a Kindergarten teacher, not a Thesis Writing teacher. You interact with children...and perhaps play your harmonica to them. A key factor there is JOY.
If they sense you actually EN-JOY being with them...or...otherwise...

When it was suggested that your writing resembles that of a 10 year-old, you responded that you write as you speak. This is a goal sought by many poets and novelists...a la Kerouac. The word "language" has as its root--"lingua" meaning tongue. One of the many sad results of hyper-literacy and the alienated suburbanized nuclear family...is that "over-educated" folks can easily end up speaking like prose literature...because they're culturally deprived...grew up without an abundance of audio input from humane beings (rather than TV actors). Something is lost...soul...spirit.

This is one of the many positives I find in China....the sounds of the people's voices are HUMAN...rather than de-humanized/de-humanizing.

Regarding that "10 year-old" evaluation...your response seemed to me rather unique in this Forum. You seemed to be sincerely trying to understand the INTENT of the writer, and apologized in advance for possibly misunderstanding the writer. Possibly you have stong Libra or Pisces energies.

My interpretation of the writer's INTENT in using the phrase "10 year-old":
*to show off--by attacking the vulnerable--in front of one's pecking-order peers
*to antagonize you
*to humiliate you--but for those with a true-spirit, such acid words are like water off a duck's back

Good-ole'-shmoe patriarchal culture can look with distaste--and even antagonism--upon:
*the innocent
*the vulnerable
*the sincere
*the hopeful
*the idealistic

Extensive research has shown a link between how (1)women and (2)the earth are treated. One of the great insults of patriarchy types is to say another man is acting like:
(1)a child
(2)a woman

Jesus and Taoism, and other Wisdom Traditions, have a different perspective. So do I.

Keep the spirit, brother. I suspect your sincere style (and harmonica) can help lower the English learners' "affective filter," while the Black Hat cynicism all-too-evident by some on this Forum...will unfortunately do otherwise. For China's uptight English learners, a true smile truly works better than a smirk/snarl/grimace/frown/scowl...and other self-fulfilling toxic prophesies.

[mandu]

I know Im an English teacher
because that is my job in china.
Iam good at what i do

[Sinobear]

Speeaking of black hats, pirates wear black hats and pirates hijack things, such as this thread.

And now back to the regularly scheduled thread...

[ChinaMovieMagic]

[Sinobear]

Yes, CMM, I was refering to you! T-Lance simply opined about Mandu's style of writing. He/she/it could have pm'ed Mandu to say what he/she/it did, but hijacked my thread instead. I have no qualms with Mandu's style; however, I do have qualms with those who hijack threads with personal diatribes and agendas. I didn't hijack your thread (even though you cross-posted), I merely asked a question.

We can be friends, yes? Or do I need to bring Gray000 in to explain the nuances to you?


Cheers!

And back to the regulary scheduled post...

[ChinaMovieMagic]

This all relates to being an effective teacher. A key concept from Chinese pedagogy tradition include:
*Teacher as being Humane

As a teacher, this concept influences my work in China, regardless of the level of practice in China's classrooms...or in this Forum. The use of "ad hominem" attacks upon folks...this is perhaps a sign of the syndrome of the "Authoritarian Personality," linked with Sado-Masochism. Research has shown that many-many teachers score high on Authoritarian Personality tests. China's English learners do not need FTs to model this!!
For me, there is no justification in saying: "Everybody's doing it."

QUOTE:
T-Lance simply opined about Mandu's style of writing.

T-Lance wrote:
Call yourself a kindergarten teacher, call yourself an early-childhood specialist but, please, don't call yourself an English teacher!

Mandu replied:
Iam very good with the 3yr old children when it comes to teaching,i dont put the children down when talking to them.

I sense that Mandu-as-a-teacher has a sensitive/humane spirit...a quality that is increasingly rare in the de-humanizing times in my own USA...a quality that I hope that we teachers can better em-body/verb-alize in our classes and even on this Forum.

RE:
...however, I do have qualms with those who hijack threads with personal diatribes and agendas. I didn't hijack your thread (even though you cross-posted), I merely asked a question.

We can be friends, yes? Or do I need to bring Gray000 in to explain the nuances to you?

BELOW perhaps demonstrates the need to "walk-the-talk"
Your QUOTES are from your response to my Posting on deBono's 6 Hats, with my Response included. You write: "I merely asked a question." Ad Homine attacks as mere questions?

Not to lose the teacher-in-China thread, I'd appreciate some elucidation regarding your pedagogical perception of "liberal claptrap."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE:This is in the context of "New Age, Crystal-Sucking" philosophy. China Movie Magic would be much better off reading Everything I Ever needed To Learn I Learned in Kindegarden or Dilbert, rather than cutting and pasting every piece of liberal claptrap about teaching he/she/it can find. ===============================================
Sounds like a RED HAT judgement...
Red is for feelings, hunches and intuition
It permits people to put forward their feelings without the need for apology, explanation or attempt to justify them
===============================================
Response: Mr. de Bono's approaches are generally well-known by those in the training professions, and have been used for decades by leading corporations/universities etc. Try a Web search.
==============================================
QUOTE:In fact, ChinaMovieMagic, I wonder if you even teach at all? Are you in China? Does reality ever approach your doorstep?
==============================================
Sounds like a Black Hat judgement...
The black hat is the logical negative
It is the hat of caution & critical judgement
It is the most used hat, and perhaps the most valuable hat, mistakes may be disastrous
At the same time, it is very easy to overuse the black hat, it is easy to kill creative ideas with early negativity
===============================================
Response: My China ESL/EFL/EIL experience:
*early 1970s--Cambridge, Ma. US-China Friendship Assoc., training Harvard scholars from China (Green Hat&Yellow Hat motivation)
*1981--Boston Chinatown
*1981-1984--1 year each in HK/Macau/Taiwan, at universities, corporations etc.
*1988-1990--Taiwan, at universities, middle school, corporations etc.
*1999--Present--I'll be here long-term, as it gives me an opportunity to wear ALL the hats.
(I've also taught EFL/ESL/EIL elsewhere...starting w/Peace Corps in W. Africa, as well as Mexico and USA...)
==============================================
QUOTE:Just wondering
==============================================
This sounds like the Green Hat.
The green hat is for creative thinking, new ideas and additional alternatives Putting on the green hat makes time and space for creative effort. This is were we engage in lateral thinking and other creative techniques
===============================================
RE: Personally speaking, I derive great PLEASURE for Green Hat and Yellow Hat activities, which is one reason among many why I choose to stay teaching in China (www.iltcscu.org).
Sinobear, I note that in your profile, under INTERESTS, you answer: "Masochism. Making the same mistakes again and again." Is this a sincere act of self-revelation? Or a form of cynical humor...? In any case, your Black response to my Posting regarding deBono's technique...suggests to me that you might--in the spirit of sincere self-revelation--consider expanding your profile-listed INTERESTS...
...from mere "Masochism" to the Full Frontal Polarity:
"Sado-Masochism."



[/quote]

[Sinobear]

Okay, I'll bite.
I've been in China for more than 6 years. I've managed a college program. I've hired, I've fired. I've seen more than 100 students to graduation. I remain in contact with my grads and celebrate their successes - not as someone who has made "it happen", but as someone who has helped them realize their potential.
I've taught adults, middle school students, and now elementary students. I abhor the limelight. I don't want my picture taken, I don't want to do press conferences, I refuse (yes, refuse!) to be filmed. I am here to do a job - teach English. That's what I do. No theories, no high-brow approaches and disecting of what I will do or the impact of my suave teaching style.
If you want to elevate your babbling and dancing in front of your Chinese charges to some sort of utopian psycho-babble (remember, B.F. Skinner concluded in the 50s that all theories regarding education and learning are useless) that's your business. In China, making money by having a foreigner is business. We are a means to an end. To portend that you serve some higher function is simply self-delusional. My good friend teaches the same level of students as I in Canada (grades 4-6). The majority of his students are ESL students. He experiences the same frustrations and sense of futility as I do - despite his weekly meetings and professional development days where the teachers (far more qualified and educated than I) are fed theory after theory after theory.
You have your way, I have mine. My students respect me and know that I care about them. The management of my school knows this, too, although they disagree about my approach (Why can't he just get them all to parrot the words from the book?).
At least I can personalize my experiences here and discuss them openly without having to rely on soooooooooooo much cut-and-paste clap-trap of theorists. I am not perfect, I am fallible. But (and yes, I started a sentence with 'but') I know what I'm doing and I certainly don't need someone else to tell me how and when to go to the bathroom, or the reasons why I go.
BTW, I speak 5 languages fluently, I can set up communications via satellite, submarine, HF, VHF, UHF. I can translate between binary, octal, hexidecimal and solve advanced calculus problems. I can exist in barren, permafrost conditions for weeks with no outside help. I can perform tactical insertions (no, not sex!) from low-altitude aircraft. I can fire, service (no, not sex!) and repair over 30 types of weapons. Is this something that requires theories? No, it requires experience. I have experience (no, you dirty minds, not sex!) and theories (especially cut-and-paste) had nothing to do with what I have learned, what I know, or what I teach.

Good luck to you, sir. You certainly must have a lot of lonely hours to contemplate the whys and wherefores of your isolated existence.

But we can still be friends...it only takes a few beers and you to dismount from your "holier than thou" horse to drink them. Be one of us!

Disclaimer: I am slightly under the influence as I post this - so I absolve any responsibility (so good of me to do so!) for the above (and the pink elephant beside me demands that I include him/her/it, too).

Cheers!

P.S. 2 Over Lee, is this pap? I would hate to be smeared in your eyes (a pap smear?) for answering a baiting troll.

[Sinobear]

And. if the above was not enough, a gentle reminder of the rules for posting:
"12. Articles that are more than 300 words may be edited or deleted. Try to keep your comments concise. If an article is longer, post a link and quote only the really important parts to your argument."
Gray000 was most correct in reminding you, CMM, of this. Try the Readers' Digest approach: brevity, brevity, brevity (and I've already said that I'm great at giving advice, but loathe to take it, so you can't throw that back in my face with a 1000 word cut-and-paste snippet).

[Roger]

[Sinobear]

Roger, I almost always agree with you except when I don't. This is one of the times that I almost agree with you!
Yes, the Chinese players get what they want at our expense. You can, I can, the people reading this, too, can get the merc or beamer. You just have to have your conscience removed. Take what you can get, manipulate, lie, cheat, go against our western grain and bs to no end. You. too, can have the penthouse suite and fine cars. Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. Ouch.

Damn my conscience and morality!

Cheers!

[ChinaMovieMagic]

Badtyndale wrote:

[ChinaMovieMagic]

Sinobear wrote:
>>B.F. Skinner concluded in the 50s that all theories regarding education and learning are useless...<<

I'm wondering if other Sinoteachers would agree that the Behaviorialist AudioLingualMethod is the "summa qua non" of FL pedagogy.

>>In brief, Skinner�s view of language acquisition is a popular example of the nurturist ideas. Behaviorism, as known by most of us, was passively accepted by the influential Bloomfieldian structuralist school of linguistics and produced some well-known applications in the field of foreign/second language teaching � for instance, the Audiolingual Method or the Army Method. The theory sees the language learner as a tabula rasa with no built-in knowledge. The theory and the resulting teaching methods failed due to the fact that imitation and simple S-R connections only cannot explain acquisition and provide a sound basis for language teaching methodology. <<
===============================================
http://www.sntp.net/behaviorism/ayn_rand_skinner.htm

Ayn Rand was no Skinner fan either...

>>If you wonder what motives could bring Mr. Skinner to his theories, what frustration could lead him to so profound a hatred of mankind, and who would be his first victims, the Time story offers three passages that provide eloquent clues. The first is a quotation from Mr. Skinner's novel Walden Two. The speaker, Time explains, "is T. E. Frazier, a character in Walden Two and the fictional founder of the utopian community described in that novel. He is also an alter ego of the author . . . " The quotation: "I've had only one idea in my life - a true idee fixe. To put it as bluntly as possible - the idea of having my own way. 'Control!' expresses it. The control of human behavior. In my early experimental days it was a frenzied, selfish desire to dominate. I remember the rage I used to feel when a prediction went awry. I could have shouted at the subjects of my experiments, 'Behave, damn you! Behave as you ought!"

The second passage deals with Mr. Skinner's youth. In his college days, he wrote short stories and "sent three of them to Robert Frost, who praised them warmly. That encouragement convinced Fred Skinner that he should become a writer. The decision, he says, was 'disastrous.' . . . In his own words, he 'failed as a writer' because he 'had nothing important to say.' " <<

[2 over lee]

Sinobear, I would never bait a troll, only germane posters. ( Lee Odden may like to quote that) I�m not going to answer the pap question, because answering questions would be too easy. I for one am sometimes lost as to the weird development of these threads.

A little comfortably numb meselv.

[Gray000]

CMM's commit, which i THINK i agree with notwithstanding, I think roger has a point in that he stresses the degree to which students must be ready for real learning. Chinese students don't seem to be in something like language. Coming closer to your stuetns is one thing, (cut me some slack on spelling - I just took a final and I'm 4 drinks drunk at 2 PM) being a dancing bear is another. There is something inherently challenging and face-threatening about good education. There is a happy medium, but to reach it you still have to stand up and say "I ain't nobody's dancing dear. STFU about the WTO and welcome to the rest of the world."
Allright, I have a bad attitude. Strike the second sentence in that quote. Still, tho... you know?

[Gray000]

All right, fine, for example - under the chinese tradition, teachers are responsible for their students' performance. WTF? I think being a mature learner means taking responsibility for one's own learning. This too is accepted ESL doctrine - under 'good learner' theories, which ain't universally accepted, but ESL ain't rocket science nor theology either - that we don't hear progressive chinese educators espousing.