Job Discussion Forums

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Yes I do think so. I don't use the male gender to represent women. Why should you continue to do so? That practice was deemed politically incorrect more than 30 years ago. Probably before you were born, so you have no excuse.

And BTW, the person who began this thread used neither mankind, nor man--but MEN. Still aren't getting it, are you?

Josh Lyman · Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 98

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

"Goodwill to all men" is actually a quote, from well before thirty years ago.

And moonraven's implicit belief that it is an example of the masculine form appropriating the feminine is almost certainly wrong.

'Man' originally simply meant 'human being'. 'Woman' comes from 'wif' + 'man', literally female human being.

Just to confuse things more 'human', which presumably is the form that moonraven prefers, comes from the Latin 'homo' meaning 'man', through the French 'humain/humaine' .

Incidentally, homosexual does not come from the Latin for man but from the Greek 'homos' meaning 'the same'.

Perhaps somebody should buy Moonraven a dictionary for Christmas.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

No thanks. I have all the dictionaries I need.

Archaisms that imply patriarchal domination should be eliminated. Even on this reactionary forum.

AsiaTraveller · Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 6:57 pm Post subject:

Let's all hope that Stephen Jones starts posting his messages in Greek, Latin and Old English. He will certainly be understood in this forum.

Using etymological evidence to justify the contemporary usage of words is clearly nonsense.

How about simply wishing "Good will to all"?

Yes, to ALL of you: men, women and all those in between.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Inclusion, instead of exclusion: Great idea, AT--and that's what the Christmas holidays SHOULD be about.

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

"Peace on earth and goodwill to all men" is not contemporary usage.

The archaism doesn't imply patiriarchal domination - that 's precisely the point you both insist on missing.

If however you both want to exclude yourselves from the goodwill, I am sure nobody will mind overmuch. You were probably only included by oversight anyway.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

So we can't even wish each other well anymore without igniting the powder keg.

I'll stick with the Good Will part and let sleeping dogs lie peacefully under the tree near the mantle.

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

Happy holidays, everyone.

d

AsiaTraveller · Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 11:04 pm Post subject:

Stephen J.,

I send good will to even the most clueless of pedants during this time of year. Please accept by kind wishes.

Cardinal Synn · Joined: 01 Nov 2004 Posts: 586

Guy, your cookies look a bit dodgey, especially the one in the middle of the plate. Why is it browner than the others? Does it have a secret ingredient?

AsiaTraveller · Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 7:08 pm Post subject:

From Pope John Paul II's Christmas message (25 December 2004):

"Men and women of good will, of every people on the earth, come with trust to the crib of the Savior". [in Italian]

If contemporary usage is good enough for the Pope (who regularly uses an archaic language), it should be good enough for pedantic linguists.

Cardinal Synn · Joined: 01 Nov 2004 Posts: 586

The Pope's message seems to include all men and women of good will and of all peoples, but then he spoils it by suggesting that only Christians qualify!

AsiaTraveller · Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 1:27 am Post subject:

Well, even a Pope can't always be infallible...

Wink