Job Discussion Forums

[JimDunlop2]

BOWTIE? Good Grief! As PAULH said, only waiters wear bowties. And where I live, they don't even wear them -- only "cokktail bar" (intentionaly spelled wrong) staff wear them...

Jeez, I would not go for it.... I'm nobody's monkey. I can understand a request for a shirt & tie, but anything beyond that is, as Nismo put it, exploitative.

I would recommend refusing to wear anything remotely resembling a bowtie! (Your name is Kunta Kinte NOT Toby)...

AND as soon as possible, starting making passes at all the female staff in the office... When you get fired, you can collect unemployment insurance for 3 months while you look for a decent contract....

Otherwise, the working conditions (in terms of hours) are fairly normal. I wouldn't believe the 7 weeks holidays though. And if you do INDEED have that kind of time off, I wouldn't expect it to be paid... Which REALLY sucks, if you (for example) have the entire month of August off and rely on a regular paycheque to cover your monthly expenses.

Personally, I wouldn't touch that contract with a 2 metre pole..... As for breaking contract, people do it all the time. I wouldn't advocate it unless it were necessary, but the most they can do is withhold your last paycheque (and not even legally at that). If you do leave, try to give them as much notice as possible... It minimizes the chance of that kind of B.S. happening.

[Gordon]

You should come to school with a big red polka dot bowtie and tell them this is all you have. It is this or nothing. You may not need to wear anything then.
Is it normal to wear a tie when teaching kids in Japan? I'd think they'd try and swing from it or pull it constantly.

[Stosskraft]

Hey Lister,

That no "fraternization" clause seems a little odd to me. I just got off the phone with an English teacher working at the same school as I am going to, and they actually encourage close relations with the Japanese teachers and English teachers. Every Friday night after classes all the staff go out for drinks and quite often the Japanese teachers will offer assistance to the English teachers outside of the school (setting up a bank account or joining a club, that sort of thing).

I think if possible. you should try to get in contact with one of the English teachers at the school. This is a great way to an idea of what the conditions and atmosphere are like at the school. Also try to get an idea form this person about your teaching schedule, preparation time, class size and holiday's, if possible.

Personally, I don't think I would feel comfortable signing for a school that has this kind of clause anyway. What does the school exactly consider "fraternization" ? This seems like to big grey zone to me, and could end up causing you trouble down the road.

just me two cent's

PS. I hope you don't have to act like pee-wee Herman, if you have to dress like him !! ....A bow tie ????

[Lister100]

Yeah, I found out the bow tie was a misunderstanding so I apologize for that.

The 45 hours is including breaks so I guess that my breaks are not paid and on busy days I would be expected to teach the full 8 hours. Sounds like this is pretty normal.

The no fraternization is real, but from your comments I take it that this is not to be taken too seriously.
"2.12
The Foreign Instructor, without permission from the owner shall not interact with students, Japanese staff or other (school name)'s related associates outside of office hours."


I am going to look into the holidays. They told me it was paid, yet there might be some fine print on the matter.

I am late for an appointment so I haven't read all of your responses but I will get back to them later.
Thanks to everyone that has responded. I hope my mistake on the bow tie didn't take too much of your time.[/i][/quote]

[Nagoyaguy]

8 hours a day teaching is ridiculous. You will die.

Most of the commercial eikaiwa cut off the teaching hours at 25 per week. It also depends on what constitutes a 'teaching hour'. Some cheap schools actually only count the minutes you are physically present in the classroom

For example, 6 x 50 minute classes = 300 minutes = 5 teaching hours.

Other schools count one lesson as a 'teaching hour', regardless of time. In the above example, it means 6 'teaching hours' because of 6 classes.

Add to that, you wont have time to prepare your lessons, go to the bathroom, have a cup of tea, do anything but be a walking dictionary. I would ask for a specific breakdown of the actual student contact time, plus a schedule of overtime pay. How many hours of teaching time are included in the base pay, what the overtime pay rate is, and so on.

The non-fraternization clause is illegal, patronizing, and more than a little paranoid. If the school is reputable, they would encourage the staff to socialize, particularly across cultures. In Japan, the social aspect of the workplace is vital. Most companies and schools have lots of social events, seasonal parties, and casual drinking/karaoke on a regular basis. Restricting these activities is a big red flag.

Perhaps the school got burned in the past by another foreign teacher, or perhaps they are just fvcked up. NOVA tried to enforce a similar non fraternization clause regarding teachers and clients meeting after hours, and it was shot down in the court system. So, attempting to enforce such a ban between adults who share a workplace is laughable. If the school doesnt trust the employees, they shouldnt hire them.

[PAULH]

As I mentioned, such an anti-fraternization totally illegal and unenforceable. Your employer can not dictate who you meet after work in your own time. NOVA had the same problem with their fraternisation clause and the press jumped on it as being an anti-dating clause. Its not, and the opposition to it by unions etc allows people to associate with whom they want, when they want when they are not working or they have knocked off work. What happens if you meet a staff member or student in Lawsons or a coffee shop? Are you supposed to run the other way and refuse to talk to them? Do you have to ring up your boss for permission to talk to them when you meet people in your neighborhood? What do you do if a student lives in the same block as you?

I suppose you have to ask permission if you want to "date" or speak to the secretaries. Either that or they are scared you will spill some trade secret or complain about your job to them. You also had trainers and managers at NOVA who make it their business to spy on employees so they can get in managements good books and get promotion by ratting on employees.

Sounds totally like you have a nanny for an employer.


PS In an 8 hour day they have to give you a 1-hr break after 4 hours of working or so by labor law, I can probably look this up. You will need it about 4 or 5 back to back lessons anyway. No one can work for 8 hours straight with no break in between.

Breaks are usually considered unpaid time during the work day but they have to give you meal breaks.
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[Lister100]

3.1
"Teaching hours fit into a normal 9-hour working day. Foreign Instructors are required to teach for a maximum of 8 hours a day. Breaks are written into the schedule. These breaks allow the teacher to eat meals or relax between classes. Foreign Instructors are of course allowed to eat off premises but are reminded of the need to be back at the school 15 minutes before their students arrive for lessons."

My problem is that the way this is written a lot is open to interpretation. When they say a 9 hour working day and that breaks are wriiten into the schedule, I see it as them saying 8 hours should be spent on my feet teaching and the 9th hour for breaks and lunch.

I don't know how much prep. time is usually required for these classes, but it does seem like a lot to put on top of eight hours. Say prep time is 2 hours and another 3 hours for odd jobs, getting to work and making meals. That is pretty much the whole day. I'm not saying its impossible, only that its not a 9-5 job and I was expecting to have time enjoying Japan as well. For me this is suppose to be only a temporary job giving me life experience and exposure to a different culture. I'm not going there to become Japanese(not that there is anything wrong with that). If I'm wrong on my calculations feel free to set me straight.[/b][/i]

[Lister100]

screwed up

[PAULH]

[Stosskraft]

Hey Lister,

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think it is a good idea to explain to them why you choose not to work for them and see what they say. The school that I was suppose to go work for just cancelled my contract, 6 DAYS before I was suppose to get on the plain. Now I have a ticket and visa and no job to go. Needless to say this has cause a major problem for me, as I have quit my job here and just sold my car a couple of days ago. So I don't think you need to worry about turning down the position, as it might have happened to you anyway.

Sorry everyone I had to get that off my chest.....

[spidey]

[Nagoyaguy]

Lister;

If you want to work at that school, I would probably not worry too much about the non fraternization thing and concentrate on the actual working conditions at the school.

As many have said, 8 hours of teaching in a day is impossible.

When do you prepare for class?
When do you do paperwork (student attendance, reports, evaluations)
When do you go to the bathroom or have a cup of tea?
How about interviewing prospective students? Is it counted as teaching time?

Ask the school these questions. Get them to commit to a set number of classes per week. Note that I said classes, NOT hours. There is a big difference, and some schools will try to screw you about it. IMHO, a schedule with more than 30 classes a week is totally impossible. Also, get the school to specify how much overtime you will be paid over that limit. I think a minimum of 3000 yen per class is reasonable. Plus, overtime should be voluntary and not mandatory.

When I was a drone at GEOS, the schedule was a maximum of 25 'hours' per week. At GEOS, the minutes in class were counted, not the number of classes. A couple of times, I approached 23 or 24 hours per week, and it was pretty draining, especially considering the other time in the week spent doing paperwork, lesson prep, and so on. Also, GEOS has set and premade lessons that more or less just require photocopying and checking the book before class. Even so, it was really hard.

8 hours teaching a day? Forget it.

[Stosskraft]

Hey Spidey,

I have been in contact with the school twice, since I have gotten the news. I do understand their reasoning, but I am still extremely disappointed. I personally find the timing really bad, as I have given my notice at work and I am now stranded here without a vehicle. The hardest part is now deciding if I should just show up or forget the whole thing altogether. On the positive side I do have a plane ticket, working holiday visa and a few buck saved up, so I am leaning towards just showing up and searching from within Japan.

On a side note,

I have heard of offices in Japan posting job opportunities for working holiday visa ? Would anyone know of any office in or around Hiroshima? I am leaning towards that part of Japan (Hiroshima, Tsuwano, Miyajima) can anyone suggest any good websites or schools I can contact in that general area ?

Thanks,

mildly depressed, angry, frustrated and......