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Xenophobe
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 163
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 Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Aristotle hasn't got a clue what he's talking about. We had no trouble getting an ARC for our son in '97 and we were in Kaohsiung for five years. Another one of the teachers at our buxiban, also a Canadian, had three of her children there and she and her husband had no trouble either. There were four other couples we associated with in Kaohsiung (two from the States, one from S. Africa and another from Canada) who also brought their children and had no trouble at all. Besides, aren't TAS, TBS, TES, KAS and several other schools catering to foreign children in Taiwan? If foreign children weren't allowed in then why would these schools exist? Aristotle is obviously using another bodily orfice, other than his mouth  , when he is discussing this issue. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| Aristotle hasn't got a clue what he's talking about. We had no trouble getting an ARC for our son in '97 and we were in Kaohsiung for five years. Another one of the teachers at our buxiban, also a Canadian, had three of her children there and she and her husband had no trouble either. There were four other couples we associated with in Kaohsiung (two from the States, one from S. Africa and another from Canada) who also brought their children and had no trouble at all. Besides, aren't TAS, TBS, TES, KAS and several other schools catering to foreign children in Taiwan? If foreign children weren't allowed in then why would these schools exist? |
Finally some useful information.
We are to understand that you are a bushi ban teacher of foreign origin and were able to get your children a dependent ARC in Kaohsiung.
Did you have to pay any bribes or use quanxi to get this done?
What office(s) did you apply through?
A. |
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markholmes
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Wengehua
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:57 am Post subject: |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Aristotle wrote: |
| Evidence that the Government of Taiwan is implementing polices based on racial discrimination pertaining to residency of foreign children. |
The information that you have posted relates to Alien Permanent Resident Certificates (APRC) and not Alien Resident Certificates (ARC). The application process for APRC's is so different from the application process for ARC's, that it is misinformed for you to bring this up here.
Aristotle, read back and you will see that the discussion is about obtaining an ARC for a newly arrived parent and documentation for the accompanying children. It is highly unlikely that they would qualify for an APRC, unless one of the spouses is a local Taiwanese.
In reiteration of the position of everyone that has posted, with the exception of Aristotle, there are no big hurdles to obtaining documentation for accompanying children. Many parents teaching in buxibans have been through the process in the past, and no doubt many more will in the future.
| Aristotle wrote: |
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The application for Permanent Alien Resident Certificate by foreigners will not be granted under the following conditions：
Those who are under the age of 20. |
This regulation specifically applies to what the Government of Taiwan refers to as "impure blood" children. |
Aristotle, this is a blatant misquote and in is in fact incorrect. This is the first time that you have ever tried to back up one of your claims with any form of official documentation, and in doing so you have shown how poor your understanding of that legislation really is. How can you continue to think that you are in a position to guide others, when you can't even work things out for yourself.
Here is the complete clause from the regulations that Aristotle cut his bit from:
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In order to apply for Permanent Alien Resident Status, applicants must qualify in one of the following categories:
1. Be a foreign national over 20 years of age, who has legally and continuously held Alien Resident Certificate for at least seven successive years, during which time the applicant must have resided for more than 183 days at least each year within the ROC.
2. Before May 31, 2002, Aliens who have legally resided in the State over twenty years and there are ten years during which Aliens have resided for more than 183 days per year.
3. Be the spouse of a citizen of Taiwan or a child born before Feb. 10, 1980 with registered permanent residence in the Taiwan Areas who has legally and continuously held Alien Resident Certificate for at least five successive years, during which the applicant resided for more than 183 days at least each year within the ROC.
4. Whose mother is a citizen of Taiwan who has resided legally in the ROC for at least ten years, during which time the applicant must have resided for more than 183 days each year for at least five years within the ROC.
Aliens who have special contributions or high-technology requirements in R.O.C. |
Read the above from the point of view of an adult who wishes to apply, and see how many of us actually qualify for an APRC.
Now, read it again from the point of view of a child who wishes to apply, and see how many of us would qualify.
About the same. The only major difference is the initial part of being over 20 (i.e. an independant adult). People under 20 don't need their own APRC as they are covered by their parents documentation. Local kids can't get their own ID cards until they turn 18, so what's the big difference with foreign kids not being able to get theirs until they are 20?
There is no undue bias against young people, and the situation is not much different from the requirements of ID back home. |
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Xenophobe
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Aristotle,
You seem a little slow in the uptake or are you being intentionally obtuse? It must be that you've annoyed everyone around you if you have to pay bribes and need special relationships to get even simple paperwork done. You haven't been asked to read between any lines, just what is posted, but even the obvious seems to elude you. Is the cacophony of voices in your head, that you refer to as "we", interfering with your cognitive skills? If you hate Taiwan so much why do you stay? Are you even in Taiwan or have you ever been there? Your obvious inability to explain yourself and the source of your "facts" exhibits a complete lack of credibility in anything you post.  |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Did you have to pay any bribes or use quanxi to get this done?
What office(s) did you apply through?
A.
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Either you know or you don't know.
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| There is no undue bias against young people, and the situation is not much different from the requirements of ID back home. |
I agree it reads like a fair and well balanced policy (except for the part banning all people under the age of 20 @#$$). What you choose to ignore is that it is implemented by racist and corrupt officials of the Republic of China on Taiwan. Taiwan goverment officals who paid bribes to get the job in the first place and are allowed to implement their own racist agendas with NO judicial oversight. The goverment of the Republic of China on Taiwan chooses to ignore or interpret laws pertaining to basic human rights anyway they see fit implementing racism and bigotry on a scale in the same league as the Third Reich.
A.
Last edited by Aristotle on Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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inwanzhou
Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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For the record I don't want to know about the visa or visa applications...I could care less about the paper work as I know it won't be an issue to get the documentation in and done. I've never had a problem with visa's for any country.
My original question was about internet filters. Are they like China? Online learning is what my daughter will be doing as she is already in a specialized language school. Also the other question was about experiences of the children. She's a pretty outgoing and fun loving adventurous individual. I'm assuming she will have a great experience but I just wanted to know about the overall experiences for some of the children. How this question got off track is beyond me  |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Aristotle wrote: |
| Please be advised that it is extremely difficult if not impossible for the vast majority of foreign teachers on Taiwan to get a dependent ARC for their family members based on their own ARC. The exceptions being most of the international schools. |
This is completely untrue. My wife applied for a spouse depenent ARC at the same time as I applied for mine. We received both our ARCs together, without any hassle at all.
| Quote: |
| Welcome to Taiwan. |
You're not even in Taiwan. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| This is completely untrue. My wife applied for a spouse dependent ARC at the same time as I applied for mine. We received both our ARCs together, without any hassle at all. |
Dependent ARCs are not issued by the Council of Labor Affairs (CLA) they are issued by the the local Foreign Affairs Police (FAP) and based on the spouse's ARC issued by the CLA.
It is at the local Foreign Affairs Police discretion as to whether or not to grant your dependents an ARC.
If you are in Taipei chances are that the regulations are more strictly adhered to. For those in the more backward regions of Taiwan be aware of the possible problems.
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| I've never had a problem with visa's for any country. |
You have never tried to get a visa on Taiwan.
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| My original question was about Internet filters. Are they like China? On line learning is what my daughter will be doing as she is already in a specialized language school. |
A few years ago the government of Taiwan actively censored and filtered websites some idiot in the GIO found inappropriate. The SSETT homepage was prohibited for a short time as were many other politically sensitive sites.
After numerous complaints and the WTO admission this policy has stopped and I don't think you will have any problems "right now".
Keep in mind that Taiwan goverment policy towards reform is "one step forward and two steps back".
Welcome to Taiwan
Last edited by Aristotle on Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| Aristotle wrote: |
| Quote: |
| This is completely untrue. My wife applied for a spouse dependent ARC at the same time as I applied for mine. We received both our ARCs together, without any hassle at all. |
Dependent ARCs are not issued by the Council of Labor Affairs (CLA) they are issued by the the local Foreign Affairs Police (FAP) and based on the spouse's ARC issued by the CLA.
It is at the local Foreign Affairs Police discretion as to whether or not to grant your dependents and ARC. |
We had both ours issued by the CLA, and picked them up at the police station. |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| We had both ours issued by the CLA, and picked them up at the police station. |
Why would the CLA issue your dependents and ARC, do they have a job?
Which city did you apply in?
The council of labor affairs handles ARCs issued for labor purposes not dependents. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Aristotle wrote: |
| Dependent ARCs are not issued by the Council of Labor Affairs (CLA) they are issued by the the local Foreign Affairs Police (FAP) and based on the spouse's ARC issued by the CLA. |
Aristotle, no ARC's are issued by the CLA. All ARC's are issued by the FAP, not just ARC's for dependants. Sorry about the Fortigurn.
The CLA issues the work permit.
The Bureau of Consular Affairs issues the Resident Visa based upon the work permit.
The Foreign Affairs Police issue the ARC based upon the resident visa.
For the record, I too have never had a problem getting a visa to come to Taiwan, nor have I ever heard of anyone being refused a visa for non-legitimate problems.
To the OP. I have seen no evidence of web censorship here in Taiwan. There are certain sites that would get shut down if they came to the attention of the authorities, but these are the same sorts of sites that would be shut down in most countries around the world. The situation here bears no resemblance to the blatant censorship seen on Mainland China. You could be pretty sure that your access wouldn't be interrupted. Why not send us the link to the site and we can see if we can access it? |
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Fortigurn
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
| Aristotle wrote: |
| Dependent ARCs are not issued by the Council of Labor Affairs (CLA) they are issued by the the local Foreign Affairs Police (FAP) and based on the spouse's ARC issued by the CLA. |
Aristotle, no ARC's are issued by the CLA. All ARC's are issued by the FAP, not just ARC's for dependants. Sorry about the Fortigurn. |
Thanks, that's interesting. So why did we have to apply to the CLA, and ring the CLA when they were being slack? And why did they pretend to be involved in it?
| Quote: |
| The Foreign Affairs Police issue the ARC based upon the resident visa. |
Who are they? I've never come across them, as far as I know. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| Fortigurn wrote: |
| So why did we have to apply to the CLA, and ring the CLA when they were being slack? And why did they pretend to be involved in it? |
I don't know the exact circumstances of your case, but here is the general situation. I assume that if you check it out with your particular experience then you will find that the following holds true.
From memory, you are based in Taipei, and work for Kojen.
STEP 1:
Kojen is likely to have handled the work permit application, received and then handed the work permit onto you. This is where the involvement of the CLA stops, as they are the ones who issue work permits.
STEP 2:
You would most likely have taken the work permit and your passport to the Bureau of Consular Affairs on Jinan Road and got your Resident Visa (10 day turn around from memory). They give you a ticket with a 'Pick up after (date)' notification.
STEP 3:
You would then have taken your passport with Resident Visa inside, to the Foreign Affairs Police Station on Yenping Road, near Ximending. This needs to be done within seven days of getting your resident visa. From memory it takes three or seven days to process - I am afraid that I can't really exactly which. There are generally not any problems with delays in this arena, as all the paperwork has been done, and all they need to do is prepare the actual ARC card. This is all handled in house by the FAP.
From memory, you actually got your Resident Visa in Hong Kong. So I assume that on your return you went to the FAP and got your ARC.
Do you recall if you actually went into the offices to get your ARC? Generally speaking foreigners don't go to the CLA as we don't really have any business there, unless we have an employment dispute. The FAP is the storefront for foreigners when it comes to ARC's.
The only step in the process where slackness is likely to occur, is in the issuance of the work permit by the CLA. In the past when the MOE was handling part of this, the whole process was taking up to a month. Now that the CLA are doing it by themselves, it generally only takes around 7-10 days. I guess delays could be expected as generally schools will post the documentation in, and the CLA will post it back when it is finished.
Fortigurn, when did you enounter delays? Was it before or while you were in Hong Kong, or after when you had returned on your Resident Visa?
| Fortigurn wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The Foreign Affairs Police issue the ARC based upon the resident visa. |
Who are they? I've never come across them, as far as I know. |
The FAP are the people that you pick up your ARC from. Did you pick up your ARC or did someone from Kojen pick it up for you? |
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Aristotle
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1388
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:15 am Post subject: |
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Everyone in Taiwan must have a sponsor (master) or higher authority to reside in Taiwan. Taiwanese must have a family and be placed in their families official registration held by the government.
In the case of most foreign teachers their employer is their sponsor.
In the case of foreign spouses their foreign spouse is their sponsor.
Who sponsors your dependents if you work on Taiwan? You can not because you are a sub human foreigner in the eyes of the Taiwan government.
Unlike real nations, on Taiwan sponsors of what the government of Taiwan refers to as subhuman foreigners, can cancel their sponsorship and the foreigner is deported regardless of that person's status.
The exception being APRC holders but their have been several cases of foreigners having their APRC revoked and deported for just about any reason the government of Taiwan chooses in contravention of the WTO treaty Taiwan signed and ratified as well as the law passed by the elected legislature. Their is no right of appeal or judicial oversight for foreign nationals. Even if a person were able to get their case in front of a judge and win, the international standard of "legal precedence" does not exist on Taiwan. Nothing changes no matter what you do. Foreigners have no civil or human rights on Taiwan! The government of Taiwan routinely ignores their own laws and constitution in cases involving foreign nationals.
Welcome to Taiwan
A. |
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