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struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
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 Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hi ymmv, I really like your scientific approach here and thanks for continuing to remind us that this is PRELIMINARY info. We shouldn't conclude too quickly!!!! Going along with the scientific method, we all know that you need to continually get more independent sources and samples to get a more accurate picture of what's going on.
On that note, it's good to pay special attention to how the sources are written. If people spread rumors or write stuff in a way that indicates a 'final say' in a preliminary matter, that source is questionable.
For example, some contradictory and, in my opinion, pretty scary info is coming from these sources:
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| One FT who called me early this week in desperation - (an American) in north China at the moment - had previously worked 3 years on a Z visa. He left for 6 months to Australia and came back to China on an L-visa. Went back to his old school, which wanted to hire him, but when they took him to the local PSB to convert the L to a Z, was told he must return to his home country with new paperwork and get the Z-visa there before returning. |
The other thread mentions that you can do this paperwork in any country outside of China, not necessarily your home country.
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| a. $600 BAIL: Source: Me, a dean, a runner and the 2002 SAFEA regulations. |
This is scary for sure, but I should point out it is standard practice for local Chinese who sign up with recruiters to work abroad. I had a close Hefei friend who got a job on a cruise ship in HK with a recruiter but had to pay 4000RMB up front first. She later broke the contract and didn't get the money back. This 'bail', if implemented, is a variation on the ongoing breach penalty issues that we've seen in the past.
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| In addition to being told to go back to the US to get a new Z-visa, he was told that there is now a rule in place that anyone caught working here on an F-Visa will have their income earned on an F-visa confiscated. |
I agree in principle with this, but let me ask a quesiton: What right does the government have to snoop in personal bank accounts?
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c. TAKING MONEY OUT OF COUNTRY. Source: That same FT in north China.
His former student, now graduated and working for the Bank of China, told him that there are also new banking regulations concerning FEs. FEs leaving the country may not carry out more money than they earned under the contracts. |
How can this be checked? Couldn't an FT just transfer money out electronically? If the Chinese goverenment starts starts nosing into my bank account, then I'll have the money transferred out faster than you can say 'snoopy snoopy'.
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| If an FE is, for example, on a 4000 RMB/month contract but funneling much more money than that through the account, questions will be raised. |
And how will they know? There are so many ways around this, not the least of which is depositing the money in an account out of reach of these little snoops.
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| P.S. Let's keep this thread going based on what you have experienced and what you have heard RECENTLY. It may even achieve sticky-status one day. |
Thanks a lot for this info. Even though some of what you posted is scary and upsetting, it's good to at least put the information on the table and work through it, so we can move forward.
To reiterate, we need more information, but my gut feeling is to agree with Roger's postings where me mentions that foreigners keep trickling into China and the country gets more powerful, so they (Chinese government) will deal with us more in the 'Chinese way'. In other words, our preferential treatment as foreign workers is being called into quesiton.
As can be seen, the 'Chinese way' is a gross violation of individual rights which involves things like nosing into personal bank accounts, tracking people's whereabouts, restricting freedom of movement, firing people without due cause, and umpteen things more.
Local Chinese have to suffer through this crap on a daily basis - we're just lucky that the government treats us better. But this is not something to take for granted.
Steve |
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stavrogin2001
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 92
Location: Liaoning
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, that was a great post. I think that it will definately answer some questions and raise some more that are very relevant to any long-time FE in China.
Like I said before, I got through the HK/Shenzhen border with my new sticker permit, but I would love to hear the experiences of others as they start to funnel back in after the Chinese New Year. I have to admit I was a little afraid as I approached the customs booth with this new permit and it did not help that she needed a few extra minutes to ask her boss if it was ok. Hopefully it was just one of the first going through and they are still getting used to them.
As an aside, can you imagine the options we have now. Anyone living in Guangdong can spend the weekends in Macau or HK and be able to come in again for work on Monday. It would be brilliant! |
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ola_zajac
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 42
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Like I said before, I got through the HK/Shenzhen border with my new sticker permit, but I would love to hear the experiences of others as they start to funnel back in after the Chinese New Year. I have to admit I was a little afraid as I approached the customs booth with this new permit and it did not help that she needed a few extra minutes to ask her boss if it was ok. Hopefully it was just one of the first going through and they are still getting used to them.
Just to bring the topic back to the top of the list.
What about the letter of release? Do we need it or not to change the job? |
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ola_zajac
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 42
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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OOOps! I just wanted to quote stavrogin2001
 Sorry, I'm a newbie here, learning how to use the forum  |
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KES
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 722
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:32 am Post subject: |
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Recently returned from Thailand with some other teachers and can confirm the residence sticker they put in your passport does indeed work as a rentry visa.
Hope this helps. |
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brsmith15
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 1142
Location: New Hampshire USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Has anyone yet used their pasted-in RP to go to and return from the UK, the US, Canada, Australia, or NZ? I've read that someone has done this for a round trip from China to Thailand but haven't read about anyone making such a trip to a "real" country. |
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bendan
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 739
Location: North China
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| What difference would it make whether you came from Thailand or Britain/Canada etc? If it works for someone arriving from Thailand, it works from anywhere. |
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ola_zajac
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 42
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| So do we need a realease letter or not? |
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cmoseley
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 299
Location: Touring
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Any confirmation on the new Z-visa being multiple entry? I need to get a year-long multiple entry visa whether it be F or Z. They're about the same price, right? I wouldn't be getting them through a school. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:25 am Post subject: |
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I hope I'm not speaking out of my a$$, but here goes: When you first come to China, you do indeed need to get a z-visa. It probably doesn't need to be more than 3 months, but get it for longer if it makes you feel more secure. Your school should work with you to get the RESIDENCE PERMIT applied into your passport. Once you have this, this takes the place of your visa.
For example: today is April 27th and let's say I've just gotten my passport back from my FAO with a year-long residence permit. It will expire April 26th, 2006. During this next year, I should be able to come and go in China until my residence permit expires. It doesn't matter if my z-visa expires now (it would have mattered if I didn't get this residence permit attached to my passport). If I leave China for a May holiday, I needn't get another visa - it's all taken care of now. The residence permit is the new "re-entry visa".
Mine expires on August 31st, 2005. My biggest concern now, should I decide to re-up somewhere, is whether or not they can get it renewed before it expires.
Here's my question: If I change address in the midst of a current residence permit, my new employer obviously has to file paperwork on me, but do I need to get a BRAND NEW residence permit? Will they paste if over my current one so all my pages in my passport don't get used up? Am I a legal residence only at my current address on file or am I a legal resident in all of China? |
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cmoseley
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 299
Location: Touring
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| kev7161 wrote: |
| I hope I'm not speaking out of my a$$, but here goes: When you first come to China, you do indeed need to get a z-visa. It probably doesn't need to be more than 3 months, but get it for longer if it makes you feel more secure. Your school should work with you to get the RESIDENCE PERMIT applied into your passport. Once you have this, this takes the place of your visa. |
I haven't had a Z-visa since I got here. I came in on an L visa, extended that twice, and now I'm on a 3-month F visa. The company that I work for says they'll get me a Z-visa, but I'll quit that job before it happens.
Last edited by cmoseley on Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| So what I'm saying applies to those that plan on staying in China at the same job for, say, 6 months to a year. Your situation is obviously different. There are those that claim here at Dave's that a person shouldn't be working here LEGALLY with an L or F visa. |
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Nauczyciel
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 319
Location: www.commonwealth.pl
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| When you first come to China, you do indeed need to get a z-visa. It probably doesn't need to be more than 3 months, but get it for longer if it makes you feel more secure. |
Not quite so. I got my Z-visa from Hong Kong Visa Office and the lady behind the counter told me the visa didn't specify the duration of stay, because it's up to my local PSB to issue the residence permit stating how long I would be allowed to stay in China. The visa read: "Duration of stay: 000" |
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musicexec
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Yiwu..for a few more months the who knows where in China
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| kev7161 wrote: |
| Here's my question: If I change address in the midst of a current residence permit, my new employer obviously has to file paperwork on me, but do I need to get a BRAND NEW residence permit? Will they paste if over my current one so all my pages in my passport don't get used up? Am I a legal residence only at my current address on file or am I a legal resident in all of China? |
From my take on it, when you switch employers, the old notifies psb. They give u a 3-5 day grace period to start new application with new employer. If you start application in this tiem frame you are okay. So in essience, you re-up, semseter ends in june..have the school start the application then..you will be valid until teh permit ends tehn with grace period. all schools consider you an "employee" through the summer. When I asked on this, I was told so it would give teachers extra visa time to travel. Go figure.
J |
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