Job Discussion Forums

[Sheep-Goats]

I know a sentence long comment won't draw much attention at the bottom of a one page long thread -- but IF YOUR FIRST JOB IN CHINA ISN'T IN A BIG, FAIRLY WESTERNIZED CITY YOU'LL BE ABSOLUTELY MISERABLE.

Start in Beijing or Shanghai. Once you have some Mandarin, and if your interest in China still holds up, move on out to a province. Remember, "real" China is absolutely dirt cheap and if you want to experience it you can do so pretty easily on a vacation from Shanhai -- or take a six month trip through there after spending a year working in Taiwan or Hong Kong. You wouldn't move to Bubleturd, Kansas if you've never been there before, would you?

Provincial cities are often unbeliveably boring, xenophobic, unsanitary (expect non-solid bowels more often than solid ones), and cloistered. Scaring up a girlfriend may be impossible. Rural China is as far from what you're used to as anywhere in the world (including the South Pole, in different ways) and you really don't want to just leap into that.

[Talkdoc]

[tofuman]

Doc,

I certainly agree with what you just said. I came here planning to spend at least five years at this school but expect to leave when my contract expires at the end of this term.

The biggest problem for me has been the language barrier. I can not directly communicate with the administration nor 90% of the students. And there is no one that I can really trust to translate or would want to involve because of potential backlash on that person.

I just had a fabulous vacation away from China. It's ironic that I have to get away from the place I came to get away. Fortunately, I am able to objectify my experience to some extent and realize that this is just one backwater, not necessarily representative of China at its best.

I have a good plan for next year, not abandoning China.

You are so right that the job will have a huge impact on the overall experience. If I got validation rather than abuse and marginalization from my employers, I would settle for a lot less and still be happy, but what is the point of casting pearls before swine? Have they never heard of employee retention?

You are someone they might listen to. Have you ever thought of doing seminars for FAOs on how to hire and retain good FTs?

[Roger]

[Roger]

[quote="millie"]

[millie]

Ah, the return journey too.

Fair enough if that is how you have considered it - although the OB {= Original BODY } was only talking about going from HK to QZ.

Cheers then.
M

[Roger]

[Roger]

[millie]

[Talkdoc]

Roger, when you write �not much as changed in last two years (since your visit) except for the obvious," I don't know you well enough to appreciate what you consider to be obvious.

From what I am told, Sanya and, to a lesser extent, Haikou have undergone considerable development over the past two years. Beijing has been pouring millions of RMB per year into this place (as they are very happy and proud about Sanya being home, two years in a row, to the Miss World Beauty Pageant).

Many of the streets here are relatively narrow and lined with trees that form a canopy over the middle of a street and I happen to love the look and feel of that. I certainly prefer that to the treeless, over-developed, cold, lifeless appearance of industrialized Shenyang. And, yes, we don�t have much industry aside from tourism and the best-tasting tropical fruits in China but, consequently, we have the cleanest air and environment.

Haikou doesn't have a Wal-Mart or a Carrefour and the Chinese tell me that medical care here is relatively poor compared to the rest of the mainland, but I am very comfortable in this community. I really don't need anything from the Western stores that I can't buy in the local ones (although I do miss paper toweling � but I recently found a local restaurant distributor and I am, once again, up to my neck in Cheddar, Gouda, Edam and Blue cheese). I am not a big city kind of guy; my home in South Florida was ten minutes away from the beach in a nice but fairly rustic part of town - it's what I feel comfortable with although I agree many might not. One of the advantages to living in an island community is that everything is very laid back and informal and that suits me just fine (I mentioned once before in another thread how some of the locals walk around the streets in their pajamas - I think that's cool and, for the first time in my life, I am actually well-dressed by comparison). As for all this terrible corruption and graft you referred to: assuming that everything you said is true, I really don't see how any of that would affect me or any other foreign teacher. The university is run relatively well from what I can tell as a faculty member here and that's all I really care about. I don't know what laws from Peking you believe Hainan Island has chosen to ignore but how does that affect any of us as foreign teachers? (And why would that lead you to refer to the community as a �dump?� I could understand �corrupt,� but why �dump?�)

The one thing you may not be aware of, and something that does affect all of us personally, is that the leaders of Hainan province are particularly and openly grateful to their foreigners and there is an explicit standing policy that we are to be treated well at all times and it is regularly broadcasted as a public service reminder by the Hainan television network (not unlike what Florida has done in regard to its tourists and foreign visitors). If you ever have a dispute in Haikou with a local, all you need to do is ask "Are you trying to cheat a foreigner?" and then mention the PSB and the matter is instantaneously resolved in the foreigner's favor. Short of killing someone, the police have "hands-off" orders where foreigners are concerned (and, admittedly, there are some who shamelessly abuse that privilege, much to my chagrin).

Given the way I have been treated by the university and the community-at-large, I would recommend Haikou to any foreign teacher in a heartbeat (unless you happen to be on the inside track of the multi-million dollar world of big business in China, the way Roger apparently is; then, according to him, you might have occasion to be party to dealings which might prove personally and professionally upsetting to you. If not, then come on down � I�ll see you on the beach ).

Doc

[Old Dog]

Roger wrote:

[coolrcdad]

Thanks to those who directly answered my question. I agree, the job has to be good along with the location.

I prefer more temperate to mildly tropical climes. From a geographic standpoint, I would probably look in central China but would not exclude Beijing or Hubei province. I visited Beijing, Chengdu, Guilin and Hefei in April and the weather was fine.

[Roger]

TalkDoc,
it sounds as though Hainan has gotten its act together after years and years of openly practised sleaze. I am glad for anyone that they are treating FTs - if they deserve it, I suppose - the way you described: with respect. Respect should be mutual. It wasn't mutual until fairly recently. Still, you can check out posts by me on Hainan as a traveller's destination: always been in favour of it. It's great, one of China's best places to visit and relax. And it is only right for the locals to have a chance of meeting with foreign teachers who are happy there. Many of the locals have good reasons to be less than happy, considering the economy's performance. someone wrote a glowing post on Yangpu Middle School in Hainan Island - another place to go and enjoy a stint.

And, Old Dog,
finally you seem to be able to add up the years and months in my China-related posts; yes, I have been here and held down jobs every year since autumn, 1994. For two years I was working in Hong Kong, although I already had my home in mainland China. You are free to conjecture and to imagine things as you please, but beware of character assassinating remarks including my accidental discovery of a bordello in a 5-star Macau hotel and casino.
You have frequently crossed the boundary between legitimate queries and illegitimate comments; I warn you: one wrong remark too many, and I will do what I can to save my good name.
I have, for instance, never claimed I can read and write Chinese; be careful in what you are alleging!
Your obsession with my biography is pathological.

[Old Dog]

Sorry, everyone, for the smell. I've just read Roger's warning and I poo*ped my pants.

But to quibble:

Roger:

[Roger]

Come on, Old Dog: I couldn't read it at THAT TIME, but I can certainly read my transliterated name now as I also had to practise writing my name in CHinese to obtain my home ownership certificate. Even so, I can't read enough Chinese to use it in writing/reading. THere is no 'sleight of hand' involved.
I allowed a number of your perfidious attacks and insinuations to go unchallenged - but no more!