Job Discussion Forums

[Old Dog]

Since I'm sure that only those interested will have followed this thread this far, I'll add a bit more.

I put Google to work in two windows. The first gave me the results for "Grammar "A is to B as C is to D". http://www.google.com/search?q=grammar+%22A+is+to+B+as+C+is+to+D%22&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&start=30&sa=N


The second gave me the results for "Grammar "A is to B what C is to D". http://www.google.com/search?q=grammar+%22A+is+to+B+what+C+is+to+D%22&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&start=10&sa=N

If anyone chooses, they might notice the following:

Re: "A is to B as C is to D" results seem to demonstrate that this is the normal way in English of expressing an analogy.

Re: The "A is to B what C is to D" search provided results that derive almost totally from foreign sites, Chinese, Japanese, Korean. Among them, I found in
http://www.cer.net/article/20050317/3131434.shtml, the following from the 2001年英语专业四级考试全真试题答案:

45．答案：A
【参考译文】智力对于大脑，就像视力对于躯体一样。
【试题分析】本题为语法题，考查对句子结构的理解。
【详细解答】 what引导的是一个类比性状语从句，说明主句行为的方式、方法，其结构为�A is to B what C is to D�，意思是�A对于B来说，就像C对于D一样�。根据句意，选项A为正确答案。

[carken]

I maintain that this statement is in analogy form, in which case the correct answer would be "as".

[Norman Bethune]

[tofuman]

A is to B as C is to D.

I'm no grammarian, but the point of the sentence seems to be made by the following:

a. A is to B [is the same] as C is to D.

b. A to B is the same as what C to D is.

c. A to B is the same [relationship] as C to D.

d. It also might be stated: A to B [is] what C to D [is].

What came first, grammar or language? Language obviously. Grammar is simply an attempt to establish rules that preserve, articulate, and perhaps define the language.

Words are merely symbols that articulate ideas. The purpose of grammar is to put those symbols in a relationship that eases the conveyance of ideas.

The point of the sentence is to make clear the relationship of the letters to the reader. c. [sic] above, "A to B is the same as C to D" makes the point clearly. To elaborate: The relationship between A and B is the same as the relationship between C an D.

If grammatical rules obscure the idea that is being conveyed, they are a hindrance rather than a help and should be discarded.

The idea should be clear to the native speaker first.

[NorbertRadd]

"Twelve to three" would specifically be a ratio, thus "Twelve's to three as four's to one" would be most correct.
Please pardon my contractions.

The second definition from the Pocket Oxford Dictionary--purchased here--agrees with the third at http://www.m-w.com, viz., in the way or manner that <do as I do>.
Oxford's example is: I speak as your friend; but this example isn't the same as the one given.

I looked in Strunk and White and Garner's Dictionary of Modern American usage and couldn't find anything.

Without any prior thought, I voted "what" because it sounds more direct and Strunk and White states: Use definite, specific concrete language.

A poster above says to look at the context. I came up with these three examples:

The KKK's to the American Deep South what Osama's disciples are to the Arab Street.
Poverty is to the spirit what sloth is to ambition.
Six is to half a dozen what twenty-five cents is to a quarter.

Many prescriptivists would describe the above as colloquialisms.

A solution would for TEM-4 is to do once was done with TOEFL and give many short essay questions. Without a doubt, this would show the true ability of the student more accurately.

Cheers!

[ymmv]

While every native speaker here and other places have come down on the side of AS as the correct choice in the original question (and I agree), a number of examples have been found and cited where WHAT was used.

Among the examples I have received:

The Chinese example (which I discount because it is not a parallel construction): What the dry, salted cod is to the Portugese, pasta is to the Italians.

But we also have:

A nest is to a bird what a house is to a man.
Honey is to a bee what milk is to a cow.
Smell is to the nose what taste is to the tongue.
The KKK's to the American Deep South what Osama's disciples are to the Arab Street.
Poverty is to the spirit what sloth is to ambition.
Six is to half a dozen what twenty-five cents is to a quarter.
Bass is to the disco fanatic what Mellow Gold is to the smoker.

I also did the Google "As is to B as C is to D" "A is to B what C is to D".Actually, I did the search prior to posting this question. Like others who reported back, I , too noticed that the returns for the "A is to B what C is to D" query hit mostly Asian websites. Moreover, I noticed that many of the hits were simply inbred copies of other sites. (No surprise there.) The examples in support of what were the same or similar to the above-cited ones.

Although my initial reaction to the stated question, a pure analogy, was that AS is the correct answer and in most general analogies, AS "sounds" correct to my mind's ear, in the above examples, WHAT sounds correct to my mind's ear (even the Chinese example).

Here is what I noticed: In all the examples given, the form is A is to THE/A/AN B what C is to THE/A/AN D. In each instance B and D take an article. (One execption, no. 5 - ambition. but ambition is a noncount noun and rarely takes an article.) "As we all know", Chinese ESL learners have a difficult time dealing with articles in English. Perhaps this is the source of the confusion to the Chinese English speakers.

Based upon all the input ("posturing" - as one poster put it) provided by all the teachers who generously contributed to this thread, I would like to hypothesize a new rule of grammar. I haven't seen it anywhere else that I could find but it seems to fit most of what sounds right in my "mind's ear". Let's call it the CFT (China Foreign Teachers) Rule Regarding Analogies:

1. In general, A is to B AS C is to D. This conforms with the international English, mathematical and scientific nomenclature of A : B :: C : D.

2. If, in A is to B ___ C is to D, both B and D take an article (ie. a/an/the), it should be read as "A is to the B WHAT C is to the D". If B and/or D are noncount and don't take an article, same result, I think.

3. If it is a Chinese "standardized" test (eg. CET 4, 6; TEM 4,8; PET; Gao Kao) the answer is always WHAT ... at least until the "standards" change.

[andrew_gz]

Thank you all!

[kyoko]

[quote="smalldog"]I think most of us only chose 'as' because we're used to IQ tests with that sentence structure. [/quote]

Also, the webster-merriam dictionary states as a definition to WHAT:
Function: adverb2
in what respect : HOW

But i do still think "as" or "just as" could work.
It's a mathematical phrase anyways. Nto really your typical grammar example. I feel sorry for those who are tested in such a crazy way

3!