Job Discussion Forums

[jeffinflorida]

ok you P-R-I-C-K-s are right, I should call Anke and tell her I was wrong for siding with the Rat Bast@rd FAO over a pretty girl from Belgium.

[laodeng]

Is this remorse?

[jeffinflorida]

I'm a New Yorker, that's about as remorseful as I get...

And I used a NICE term to describe the two posters who said I should apologize to Anke...

Ok Roger and TalkDoc? I am humble and heed your input.

[rickinbeijing]

Babala,

Actually, you're wrong. I know the urge to spout PC is irresistable but I can think of any number of male and female professors who violated these ethics. Of course, they lived off-campus.

Moral standards of the Chinese people? And what would those be? Keeping a mistress in an expensive apartment while keeping your family in a cheaper one? Keeping a Chinese undergrad as your occasional lover in exchange for a waiver on required work for a course that you, the Chinese professor, teach? Visiting KTV lounges to arrange for hookers or lounge girls while ignoring your wife? Or huge dinners at department expense? Or passing students who never come to class or do any work? Or having the necessary guanxi to enter a good college despite a lower exam score than the next guy? Or visiting countless massage parlors or bathhouses for a quick relaxing fix? Please spare me, Mr. FAO.

They get a vicarious thrill from your encounters and/or envy you while publicly denouncing your perceived actions. When you have no life, as is the case with most FAOs, you thrive on gossip. Harsh? Yeah, maybe, and also accurate. And some of the worst our at key universities. I had one FAO who kept the sign-in sheets, cut and posted them to a tack board and kept a running count on his computer. Now that's degenerate. Oh, and at the time I was single, never married, and all my guests were friends from off-campus or students in pairs.

Tell him where he can jump off, Jeff, and start looking for another job for next semester.

[cujobytes]

[Babala]

RIB,
I was not spouting PC crap, nor am I wrong. I simply said teachers shouldn't date their students. Don't use the lack of morals of some people in China to justify FT's getting to go whatever they want. Do you honestly think that just because some Chinese do it, that it is right? Sorry guys but if there are female students (I am saying STUDENTS, not women from outside the school) coming to a FT's apt after 10PM at night then the FAO DOES have the right to react.

[rickinbeijing]

Bab,

We could bab-ble on ad nauseum about this issue. If a student is not currently in one's class, I would have no qualms about it whatsoever and, I believe, neither should you. Although the universities and colleges here treat students like children, we don't need to emulate their example.

I think it's interesting that a Western female poster would object to this conduct. Might not you be imposing your own cultural standard here? I mean, Chinese women don't suffer from the ageism one frequently finds from women in the West. These are not fragile lotus blossoms, either.

In fact, let me take the discussion one step further: I think most Chinese women who can speak English and are worldly in their outlook have fewer hang-ups about this situation and sex in general than their Western counterparts. (And, of course, Western male teachers on Western campuses have always got to be on the lookout for psycho women like the one portrayed in the play Oleanna). The only discernible difference is that Chinese women want to be more discreet about it all. That's not just my observation, but a lament I've heard from dozens of Western male colleagues.

Hmm....?

[jeffinflorida]

She is NOT one of my students and not even in my program. There are numerous programs at this school.

I did not meet her in the scope of my duties as a teacher at this school.

I did not approach her in any way looking for a date or relationship or even friendship. She introduced herself to me one day.

She is/was so brainwashed by the Government about the "Horrible" ways of the West that I never considered her in any other way than just another Chinese person who is incapable of independent thought.

I never said she was my girlfriend - all I said she was coming to my house on a Friday night at 10pm.

She is a smart girl and from a poor family. I believe she has more smarts and desire to succeed than any of the rich kids in my classes who pay their 13,000 rmb a year to get a degree - whether they pass their classes or do any work at all.

[Babala]

RIB,
I don't want to give the impression that I am a prude (god knows I am not) but even as a open-minded western female I still think a teacher should conduct themselves professionally. Just because your students are interested, doesn't mean you should cross that line. There are over 1.3 billion people in China, I think a FT could find a date outside the classroom. I also think that many university-age students have the maturity level of about a 15 year-old back home.

JIF,
I apologize for implying that she was your student. Again, I am not a prude, I not trying to say there is anything wrong with having women to your flat. I just hold an opinion about teacher/student relationships.

[tofuman]

No doubt there are varying perspectives on this matter from the Chinese side of things. I am employed by a government high school. They do not want any woman of any age in the flat provided for me by the school. I have also been instructed to not visit any women in their flat.

This includes a personal friends from the States. When one came for a visit, the FAO knew our comings and goings and informed me that it was inappropriate for me to visit her hotel room unless I was out by 9p.m. The hotel employees kept a log of our activities and reported to him. This was the same hotel in which hookers were calling me when I first arrived. I guess it is ok for employees to pimp their guests for a percentage but not all right for people with ongoing relationships to be alone together if there is no gain for the hotel employees.

I stated earlier that hypocricy, duplicity, and confusion characterize this aspect of Chinese/ FT relations.

Many Chinese marry the first person they ever kiss and are virgins when they marry. The fact that there are more indigenous bimbos and tramps in China now than before does not mean that the Chinese have abandoned traditional sexual mores.

Most Westerners are decidedly immoral. Fornication, homosexuality, secret vice , and sexual abuse warped our conscience at a young age. That the Chinese cling to moral ideals that were more or less universal prior to the nineteenth century and even well into it, is not a bad thing.

I would prefer a wife that has not been pawed over by half a dozen drunks in the back seat of a car prior to our marriage

[cj750]

Tofu Man did fornication, homosexuality, secret vice , and sexual abuse warped your conscience at a young age.

[Talkdoc]

[rickinbeijing]

Babs,

We'll have to just agree to disagree about whether it's appropriate or not to date former students. In Jeff's case, as he's stated, it's irrelevant regardless.

[rickinbeijing]

[tofuman]

cj750 to Tofuman : "Did secret vice warp your conscience at a young age?"

Is it warping yours now?