Job Discussion Forums

[rwillmsen]

It seems to me that, at a University level, it's easy to tell who the school regards as the 'proper teachers' - they are the ones teaching Chinese teachers to teach English. Everybody else is employed because it's the done thing here these days and therefore the students expect it - meeting actual foreigners seems to be one of the 'perks' of getting to University.

That said, Universities do not regard experience as an important factor in who gets to do the real teaching and who doesn't. It's just a matter of post-graduate qualifications. TEFL experience doesn't count as, in most cases, they don't really know how to value it in Chinese terms.

As for wages, I think they are falling because there are more foreigners here than before and less of them have either qualifications or experience. It really needs to be said loud and clear: if you are not a qualified teacher and do not know how to teach English, OR even if you have actually bothered to do a one-month TEFL course, you cannot expect to be paid more than three times more than Chinese English teachers who have had to study for years and had to go through god knows what type of difficulties to get a job. If you want more money, either put in the hours in a second job or go to another country.

Whenever I hear a foreign teacher here refer to themselves as an 'expert', my mind automatically converts it into the word 'priick'!

[gmat]

My state uni is offering less for the same qualifications compared with the previous 2 years. I believe the big reason is that they (knowingly) anticipate a positive revaluation of the RMB in the not too distant future.

[burnsie]

Salaries are based on supply and demand (and also the government chipping in their two cents worth). As there is an influx of usless english speakers with no experience and are here for 1-2 years on a travel trip or to learn chinese it brings down the whole system.

Also has some other posters have alluded to there is an attitude that you can learn better from a native speaker which is totally crap. With this as the mindset of the customer (parents or students) then this can end in offering this to them through increased fees.

As I said, China is full of useless english teachers with no qualifications and included in no regulations (or enforced) and no real need for a quality learning experience for the students.

[Brian Caulfield]

I think that the problem is that like everything else in China quality is not important . This job I am at now I teach 1000 students for 45 minutes a week . This is the same as my last job in Wuxi Jiangsu . There is no way I can do a quality job. My classes in Korea were the same but I first tested the students then put them in groups and gave them assignments they could handle . This meant that I would prepare three lesson plans for each class. There is no point in me doing this here . There is little difference between their English and the Chinese English teacher's . I am not testing and grading students in China . I am merely a poster boy for the school . At both schools the Chinese English teacher stayed one page ahead in the textbook . I am told that the students are mostly concerned with passing a government test but when I see these test that are peppered with mistakes I am really disheartened . I agree that the recruiters are the ones making the money but the schools do well also . Education is expensive in China whether you are in Jiangsu or Shanxi where I am at now .
Like Korea , Chinese learn about English and practice using the difficult word or the unused idiom or proverb. I think one reason the salaries and standards are low here is to protect the unqualified Chinese English teacher. When you think about it a Chinese person with good English doesn't work as a teacher .
Also the salaries are coming down all over the world . Most foreigners think that learning English is like osmosis . You need an English speaking friend and by spending time with that friend you learn English . I saw this alot in Korea and Taiwan . The young good looking kids get the jobs but usually burn out by the second month of the contract .
This is my 4th country teaching English and I am working the hardest for the lowest salary. I speak enough Chinese to get around and work at it dilegently but I know that if I was 19 and unexperienced I would be earning twice as much as I am now .

[Zero Hero]

[Brian Caulfield]

Hong Kong has always been good . Maybe the best but it is very competitive . You need to be well papered . But salaries are down in Taiwan and Korea . Hong Kong is nice but I am in Asia to play Go or weichi as they call it here and there are no players there . Everyone is too busy making money and spending it.

[brsmith15]

Telfort in Shanghai hired a 19 year-old kid who sleeps with his mom and a guy from Russia who couldn't speak English - - - both to teach English! Pay is 4K and a rat-hole of an apartment. With real rats!

You gets what you pay for, in most cases that is.

[kev7161]

Are all wages going down in China? Not for me. I received a 25% increase in pay from my first year to second at the same school. I'm changing schools in the fall and managed to double my current salary (not through negotiations, this is what they were offering). The other day, I received an email with another job offer for 10K a month (plus all the basics that most schools in China offer). A fellow teacher interviewed yesterday for a gig that offered 6500rmb + 1500 living allowance. Certainly the responsibilities differ based on what you are being paid, but I've "seen" China. If I want to see more of China, I'll now be able to afford to do so more easily. Now the main reason I'm here is to work and try to earn some halfway decent money.

I think the higher paying jobs are out there - - certainly more than 3500rmb or even 4000 - - you just have to look for them and be diligent. Don't take that first low-paying offer that comes along and don't wait until the last moment to look for a job (thus necessitating accepting that low-paying job).

[william wallace]

Nothing to say.

[brsmith15]

I think what's happening is that once a good teacher puts in a year or so, then his/her pay is increased. The lesser amongst us stay at the same low level or are asked to leave........and they're the ones that whine and complain.

[Roger]

"Zero Hero" boasted salaries in Hong Kong have NOT come down over the years; correct me if I am misinformed, ZH, but why do around 30% of NETs opt to quit at the end of their tenure, and why do so many gripe about the REDUCED housing allowance (which, as we all know, was more of a bonus than a really-needed housing allowanxce, but it's come down anyway!).
Sorry, I don't feel they treat FTs extremely well in HK schools - maybe at universities, yes, but not the majority of FTs who are labouring at public schools, dealing with snotty brats that will even use violence against foreign female teachers... repeatedly reported in the SCMP.

On the other hand, I also agree with the poster who observed that QUALITY is not being pursued at Chinese schools. Very true! Learning English is about QUANTITY; there is a fixation on numbers of vocables to be acquired. They memorise words up front that have no practical importance since they don't crop up in their reading materials.

Many of those employers who offered 8000 and more in 2003 were in fact newcomers to the FT-hiring scene, with many of them not possessing the permits to hire FTs. They priced themselves out of the market and are now not hiring, or hiring at considerably worse conditions. The SARS epidemic temporarily spiked the salary levels too.
Let's be frank: hiring a FT is a last resort for a school. They do so only if they perceive a higher cash-flow. Not every public school needs to offer special classes under FTs - most schools are oversubscribed anyway. Why should they invest in expensive FTs? And yes, the upcoming revaluation may hold back some hirings.

[rwillmsen]

[MyraG]

I get told by teachers in China that my offer of 7000 for fulkl time work including Sat and Sunday is too low, most teachers I have met here are happy with their 4000 for 18 lessons per week. Alot get used to living with no responsibilituies.
But I still say, in China all jobs are equal.
Friends work 18 lessons a week, at a boarding school, good holidays but some weekends, bit boring, kids dont care.

Someone else gets 7000 for teaching 7000 in a school. He cares but classes are big. Good holidays.
I work Sat and Sundays get 11ooo, there 40 hours a week, run the school, train the teachers and I dont get great holidays. But my classes are small and the kids are learning heaps.

I am thinking I would rather take less money and have holidays and weekends off as its a lonely life this way.


I have been advertising for another teacher and half my applicants are not from the countries I specified and their applications are full of flowery out dated language that we do not use.
Others are 50 to 60 year olds, a bit lost back home, no job, come to China. I hear they dont ask for a degree. I am wanted there. Alot have their house, can rent it out, bucks arent that important. They probly have a lot to offer but even here agism is rearing its head. And you get the young stareter outers just want to spend a year, learn Chinese have fun. Thats ok. How many of us started out that way? Maybe some will take on ESL, find a girl settle down.



Teaching is not easy, I know I did it in Australia and the Europeans were known to slaughter a newbie teacher. Japanese , Chinese are muchg more kind. They know their Grammar they just practice in pronunciation.
We are an expensive school. I tell my students parents if they want grammar send their child to a Chinese teacher, they can teach them that better than I can, but if they want their child to learn to read, be able to pronouce letters and words correctly, if they want them to develope their ear for English if they want to increase their vocab, then send them to me. Otherwise don't waste your money.

But I firmly believe that you have to be a bit of a performer to be a good teacher as a good teacher has to be able to get the students attention as how do you get 5 to 30 nstudents attention, with a commanding voice , thats interesting, and lively and you arent boring watch.

But for me surely there is better or same money with beteer men, who arent just interested in the local product and having a very traditional relationship, ie not an equal partner but a wife, who is subserviant to you.

[kev7161]

[millie]