|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
hollie628
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 13
|
 Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:51 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Thank you for your help. I don't know what I will be able to accomplish with my visa beyond a tourist extension, but I'm ok with a tourist visa for now if it helps me get my Indian visa - that's my main goal outside of being able to get back into China! I can worry about the rest when I return! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
hollie628
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 13
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Also: I have a light green slip of paper stating "Temporary Foreigner Resident Permit" stapled in my passport. I have a Z visa, but not any other type of sticker. I think they started that after I got here. This is the first extension I've needed since I left my original contract. And freelance is no problem for me if I can get my visa's sorted out, but I am seeking more reliable and registered work. As long as it's not teaching in a class over 20 students, younger than 3rd grade!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Volodiya
Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the update, Hollie.
Finding a responsible employer- someone who is operating legally and can get you the documents you need to live and work in China- will make your life much simpler: try not to settle for anything less. This employer will be able to get the documents you're going to need to apply for a Z visa, abroad. When you return, this employer will be able to get you the documents you'll need, in China. With a "Residence Permit for Foreigners" (a sticker, placed in your passport), and a "Foreign Expert Certificate", you'll then be set.
[For the readers: the Temporary Foreigners Resident Permit Hollie speaks of, stapled to a page in her passport, is not the document I'm referring to, above.] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Girl Scout
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 525
Location: Inbetween worlds
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I am required to get my Z-visa before I come to Henan. I also had to do a medical exam in order to get my FEC. My FAO told me she could not get the visa or change any other visas into a Z-visa. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Volodiya
Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks, Girl Scout, for your contribution to this thread. Perhaps now we can also hear from some posters in some of these other Provinces-
Chongqing, Gansu, Guangxi, Guizhou, Heilongjiang, Hubei, Jiangxi, Jilin, Ningxia, Qinghai, Shaanxi, Shanghai, Tianjin, Xinjiang? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Meggles5
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 4
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
My Z visa story...
So I worked for one month in Shanxi province before my F visa expired. Shanxi is no longer converting F to Z I was sent to Hong Kong by my school. Here's the gruesome details:
I flew from Taiyuan to Guangzhou airport. From there I took a shuttle bus to a hotel where I caught a cab to the Guangzhou east train station. I literally ran through customs and caught the last train to Kowloon that evening. From Hung Hom station I took a cab to Nathan road and stayed at the Mirador Arcade, 58 Nathan Rd. It was 160 HKD and slightly below average.
The following morning, a Friday, I took the star ferry to Wan Chai to go to the Visa Office at 26 Harbour Rd in the China Resources building. It is not on the 5th floor anymore like someone previously posted. You must enter on the ground floor at the southwest corner of the building. I arrived at 8:30 to be 3rd in line and by the time the door opened at 9:00 the line was about 20 people long.
The process was painless. All I needed was the "Official Invitation Notice for Chinese Visa Application", and "Foreign Experts Affairs Invitation Confirmation" (which the school got for me), and my passport. It was 390 HKD for the visa but that would have gotten it to me on Tuesday. I paid an extra 250 HKD, so 640 HKD total, and had it in my hand by noon the same day. They are not open Saturdays. That evening I stayed at Wang Fat Hostel, on Peterson street and which I highly recommend, in Causeway Bay for 220 HKD .
I have to mention how amazing it was to indulge in good cheese, Mexican food, Belgian beer, and coffee done right. Oh yes and bathrooms that provide soap and toilet paper.
Total costs: 4000 RMB (2200 of this was the two plane tickets)
I had to pay all expenses to be reimbursed upon my return. My school has lost a lot of money on foreign teachers before so they weren't about to give me 4000 RMB and just hope I come back. I have received half of the money as of right now, and I will receive the other half when I return from summer break. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Volodiya
Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
June 2, 2005, Meggles5 wrote:
| Quote: |
| My school in Shanxi was able to convert a visa last year but was told the rules changed this year. Last year was the first time they have done this. After a few discussions I have gotten them to agree to pay for the travel fees and visa fees. They will not front me all the money as they fear I will not return. The previous foreign teacher was their first of five to ever complete his contract so they have been burned before. They will reimburse me in bonuses and I do believe they will do what they say. I have the privelige of getting to know the school through the eyes of the foreign teacher who is leaving. The school provided what was promised in his contract. Does anyone know how much a work visa costs??? ANd how long it takes to process this??? |
Got to answer your own question, didn't you! Congratulations, and I'm happy to hear everything worked out so well. Thanks, too, for the very informative post of use to others who may find themselves in this situation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Volodiya
Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
June 21 Lowes13 wrote:
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
You will need the FEC and FRP (RPF), look up the abbreviations in this post, in order to extend your documents.
As has been pointed out the FEC is the property of your employer and must be left with your employer when you leave.
The FRP is yours until you leave the country, permanently. |
|
Things change fast, sometimes, in China. His was an accurate statement at the time, as we were familiar with the law and practice in China, but changes were afoot.
June 26 Lowes13 wrote:
| Quote: |
| I�ve just gone through the procedure of extending my FEC and residence permit in Jiangsu province. Details: I supplied to my new employer my FEC (dark red) booklet, FRP (green) booklet and 2 passport size photos. It took one working day to process the FEC and it was returned with the new validity date entered and stamped. Four working days later I received my passport with the RPF (Residence Permit for Foreigner) sticker occupying one of the pages. |
These changes are significant for the foreign teacher, working in China.
The FEC and the RPF now both appear to be "durable", renewable, having a life that can extend beyond the first contract for work on which they were based and renewed (extended) when a new employer steps in to sponsor the foreign teacher. [This phenomenon first appeared in connection with the RFP; now, it appears to be the case with the FEC, as well.]
Caveat: expect that practices will vary from province to province in this as in other matters affecting the foreign teacher. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Volodiya
Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Updated, with information from tw, regarding practices in Inner Mongolia.
Things seem to have settled quite a lot on the visa front, expecially when compared to the first six months of 2005. There have been no new developments that I'm aware of, at this point, except that one or more provinces are recommending FTs enter on F visas issued upon the invitation and request of the school at which they will be working- after which an FEC and RPF will be issued them by the local authorities. Deezy is the main source for this information. We are currently waiting for an update from her, regarding how her new FTs were processed upon their arrival with F visas. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Keath
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 129
Location: USA / CHINA / AUSTRALIA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi,
We've been doing visa services in and out of China for about 6 years now. In the following provinces (Particularly Zhejiang) Due to changes and enforcement of Visa REgulations. Converting a L visa to Z visa is almost impossible in Country.
In some situation it was requred to ship the passports to USA, to process along with the original documents in the Chinese COnsulate here.
Fujian
Guangdong
Jiangsu *don't try on your own!!! Can do if you use Emoo.net
Liaoning
Sichuan
Zhejiang
Keath
www.journeyeast.org
TEACH IN CHINA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
amandabarrick
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 391
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
keath wrote:
| Quote: |
| In the following provinces (Particularly Zhejiang) Due to changes and enforcement of Visa REgulations. Converting a L visa to Z visa is almost impossible in Country. |
| Quote: |
| Jiangsu *don't try on your own!!! Can do if you use Emoo.net |
My husband came to China on a L visa and it was converted to the Z visa/Residence Permit on Wednesday September 21st here in Jiangsu Province. The FEC (dark red booklet) was also secured.
Details: He supplied to his employer his passport with valid L visa inside, 2 passport size photos, a copy of his BA Degree and TESOL certificate and letter of recommendation. The FEC took one working day to process at the Provincial Office in Nanjing. The RPF took 6 working days and was processed at the Muncipal (local) PSB at the office of Foreign Affairs. It is now in his passport. Shipping the passort to USA was not required. His employer is a public school.
It is absolutely possible to convert a L visa to Z visa in Country in Jiangsu. It might be required to be issued a FEC first.
AB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Volodiya
Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Keath wrote:
| Quote: |
| Converting a L visa to Z visa is almost impossible in Country. |
I find this kind of statement to reflect a misconception of the law and processes involved in getting fully documented to live, and work, long-term, in China: there are only two documents which are required, the Foreign Expert Certificate (FEC- a red booklet, which resembles a passport) and the Residence Permit for Foreigners (RPF- a sticker, placed in your passport), both of which are issued exclusively in country, by the local authorities. [Permission to live in China (RPF) is granted after permission to work has been granted (FEC).]
In contrast, Z visas are issued at Chinese Embassies and Consulates, abroad. While one may enter on a Z visa, the visa does not give permission to live and work, long-term, in China. The FEC and RPF* do that.
"Converting an L visa to a Z visa" (something which used to be an issue before the advent of the Residence Permit for Foreigners), no longer has a role in getting documented to live and work in China. Since the RPF was introduced, at the end of 2004, it has become more useful to ask, "which provinces will issue the FEC and RPF to an FT who has arrived on other than a Z visa?" (Those that will not, sometimes require the FT to go abroad to obtain a Z visa; then, re-enter China on that Z visa, before they will issue these documents. The remainder of provinces do not appear to concern themselves with which visa you entered on, when they issue the FEC and RPF.)**
Our posters have provided information, based on their personal experience with this process- and continue to do so (see the post from amandabarrick)- resulting in the list of provinces, contained in the first post to this thread, which "may not require you to go abroad to obtain a Z visa" (after you've entered on another visa type), to accept employment. This list is, and will be, updated, as information becomes available.
The things on which I've relied in putting this thread together are the Laws of China, and the detailed, factually based reports of our posters regarding their experience with the administration of this law.
By denying that there are provinces in which it may be possible for an FT to get an FEC and RPF without having entered on a Z visa, Keath is asserting a blanket requirement that an FT must enter on a Z visa if he is to accept employment- something not supported by the experience of our posters, as reported on this forum. The situation in China is both more complicated, and favorable to the FT, than that.
Keath, if you have detailed, factually based reports available which you'd like to share with us, please do so. (Your statement, sweeping as it is, flies in the face of common experience here and, as a result, is not very persuasive.) Would you like to tell us, in detail, what has lead you to your conclusions?
____________________
* Additionally, the RPF gives it holder the right to exit and re-enter China, freely, during its period of validity, without a visa of any kind.
** The table found at the beginning of this thread includes information on only about half the provinces of China. If you would like to add your first hand experience, please do so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Volodiya
Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Keath, I'd like to call your attention to the recent post from GZ, as an example of what I was talking about, regarding the experiences of our posters.
GZ wrote, Sept 24:
| Quote: |
| My situation is I entered China w/ a tourist visa, found a job in Guang Zhou, then my employer processed all legal paperwork for me. They got me a FEC and a Foreign Residence Permit(stamped on my passport) within 3 weeks after I moved into the school. |
The assertion you made in your post to this thread, Keath, just doesn't fit the facts on the ground, as they are reflected in the many posts to this forum on this subject. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nolefan
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 1458
Location: on the run
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
In Hebei province, things are still not moving. There was some progress made in the summer as far as converting L or F to Z but it's all in the past now.
There are quite a few round trips between hebei and HK at the moment.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shonisan
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 338
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have been living and working in China for a period of two years now But I have been visiting since 1997.
Blanket statements about the 'country' are impossible to make since the ability to work in China is a 'National' policy but subject to the interpretation and enforcement of each individual province.
The LAWS covering employment in China can be found HERE: http://english1.peopledaily.com.cn/data/laws/detail.php?id=112 and only the interpretation of what is printed there has changed and not the law which has been in place since 1996.
| Quote: |
| Article 4 The labour administrations under the people's governments at the provincial, autonomous regional and municipal level and those at the prefectural level shall take charge of management of the employment of foreigners in China. |
For this reason, if you take employment in another province, your authorization to work in China MUST be approved by the new province. If they take exception to your documents, you can be refused.
They CAN make you go through the Visa process again when you change provinces.
Also, when moving from job to job under a 'Z' visa, you must receive a certificate of release from your previous employer stating that your previous contract has ended and you are free to assume work with a new employer.
What the LAW states is this:
| Quote: |
Article 8 Foreigners seeking employment in China shall enter China on the strength of occupation visas (or in line with agreements on mutual exemption of visas if such agreements have been reached) and can get employed only after obtaining Employment Certificates for Foreigners (hereinafter referred to employment certificates) and residential documents for foreigners.
Foreigners who have not obtained residential documents (namely, those holding, F, L, C, and G visas), foreigners studying or doing field work in China, and the dependents of foreigners holding occupation visas shall not be employed in China. In special cases, employing units shall apply for certificates of permission according to the examination and approval procedures stipulated in these Regulations, and the foreigners to be employed shall change their status at public security departments on the strength of these certificates of permission, and obtain employment certificates and residential documents before they become employed. |
The words I highlighted above 'in special cases' are the ones used by your local PSB to send you back out of the country to change the visa.
In other words, if they do not deem your case to be a 'special case' they have the right to do this.
Also, if you get 'pissy' with them or irritate them in any way, they will grin and send you on 'visa runs'.
Also, when you have problems with your school or an agent and feel that the government might be interested in hearing about evil people, BEWARE!!! There are people operating in China who have amazing Guanxi.
I know of one agent working out of Hanzhou for instance who is notorious for the old 'bait and switch'. (ie. he sends out pictures of a school that looks like a beach resort with a 12,000yuan/month salary and then delivers you to a converted factory at 4,000 yuan.) Why is he still operating? ... Because he's the brother of a highly placed party member in the city. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
