Job Discussion Forums

[burnsie]

[Volodiya]

Burnsie, I appreciate the way you handled this. We're all sort of feeling out way around in the dark, here, adding little by little to understanding this as we go. I consider everything I've written about this to be subject to revision as new information, and the experience of other posters, adds to the body of accumulated knowledge.

[Kelownapair]

Trying to follow this thread had been fun. I think I get the jist of it now and have to finally clarify things so we can get a timeline set-up before we head back to Canada for the summer. Our current Residency Permit, Issued Oct 20, 04, expires on June 30, 05. We finish our current contract June 16th, 04 and want to return to Shanghai to teach again starting Sept. 05. Do we have time get this new Residency Permit thing, that will allow us to come and go during our next year here before we leave this June 21st? We have offers of new contracts to decide on but will not make a final signing or decision until after our current contract ends at midnight June 15. Will our new employer have the ability to get us the new permits before we fly home or will we have to once again return on an "L" visa, do the medical, all that stuff to get the "Z" visa again and then get this new residency permit? Just a little help from ya'll would be greatly appreciated.
ALSO!!! Unfortunatley, one of our Passports actually will expire within the next 7 months, we ill have to renew it I know but will this make things harder/easier/ or void?

THANKS

[Kelownapair]

Trying to follow this thread had been fun. I think I get the jist of it now and have to finally clarify things so we can get a timeline set-up before we head back to Canada for the summer. Our current Residency Permit, Issued Oct 20, 04, expires on June 30, 05. We finish our current contract June 16th, 04 and want to return to Shanghai to teach again starting Sept. 05. Do we have time get this new Residency Permit thing, that will allow us to come and go during our next year here before we leave this June 21st? We have offers of new contracts to decide on but will not make a final signing or decision until after our current contract ends at midnight June 15. Will our new employer have the ability to get us the new permits before we fly home or will we have to once again return on an "L" visa, do the medical, all that stuff to get the "Z" visa again and then get this new residency permit? Just a little help from ya'll would be greatly appreciated.
ALSO!!! Unfortunatley, one of our Passports actually will expire within the next 7 months, we will have to renew it I know but will this make things harder/easier/ or void?

THANKS

[Volodiya]

You've got yourselves some interesting plans, there. It strikes me you do have enough time to deal with this, if you act quickly.

In this situation, if I were dealing with it, I'd first check to see how quickly my consulate in Shanghai could issue me a replacement passport for the one that expires in seven months: odds are, they'd void the old one when they give you the new one and the old one would be returned to you along with the new, so you'd still have proof of the existence of your current RPF. (Formerly, issuance of a new passport could be done in a couple of business days: I don't know how long it takes, now, post 9-11);

Then, I'd move up the decision date on the new contract to give both the old and new employers more time to update your RPF so that it is valid to the end of your next contract (say, June 2006). [You'd think five business days would be enough- but ten would be safer, I'd think.]

If you were able to achieve this before you left, you would not need to acquire a visa to re-enter China to work, in the fall, the valid RPF giving you this privilege;

[Lastly, I'd consider whether I had to leave on the 21st, or if this could be postponed, if necessary, to give the schools, and the authorities, more time to deal with this.]

Some additional comments: in these circumstances I'd get that RPF extended before I left the country, as the simplest and best route to take for one who wants to return to work next fall. You could leave the country without getting it extended; but, once it expires, you'll need a new visa to re-enter China and entering on anything other than a Z visa would be risky in this new environment. If you returned on an L visa, you might find yourself having to leave the country, again, on a visa run, just to get a Z visa. (The trend in the last six months has been to enforce this requirement in more and more provinces, and your province just might tighten up on this while you were gone.) Furthermore, you wouldn't be saving your employers any trouble: they'd have to go through the processes, anyway, to get you the new, additional documents you'd need to have with you when you applied for a Z visa.

Whatever you decide, they'll be plenty of running around to do, but it can almost all be done by you and your old and new employers here, if you act quickly and they coordinate the process between them to the degree necessary.
___________________

I wrote this as if everything will work out; but, suppose there are some snags. Suppose, for example, your consulate needs longer than a few days to get a new passport to you. Then, you'd make a decision in a timely fashion about a new contract and get it signed. Let your new employer know that you'd like to be processed for a Z visa now, and the documents you'll need placed in your hands before you go. Having done that, you could then consider, based on how much time they need, whether to postpone your trip, if necessary, to get the documents- or, simply provide your employer a mailing address to which they could be reliably forwarded to you sometime this summer, and leave, as planned. You'd then get the new passport, and the Z visa, back home. [This change of approach would be mandated by the fact that you wouldn't want an RPF or Z visa put in a passport that's going to expire anytime soon, even if no one else objected to it!]

Good luck.

[kev7161]

Generally, I've found that if you go to the PSB with all your ducks in a row (all the proper documents), then turn-around time to get your passport back with the RFP sticker in place (to clarify, it is a "Z-visa" looking thing that is pasted on one of your passport pages) is about a week. If your school does it for you, well, it depends on the efficiency of your school and how much you ride them to get it done NOW!

So, here's what we've learned from this thread:

1. If you are coming to China for the first time (or returning after an extended leave), you will need to get a Z visa. You can apply for this visa with a letter of invitation from your prospective school. A 3 month visa should suffice, but certainly get if for longer if you are worried. You shouldn't have to get a multi-entry visa. Later it will be "replaced" with a Foreign Residence Permit that will have the same sort of function.

2. If you are in country already and are still using a green booked Residence Permit, once you change jobs or sign a new contract with your current school, you will probably not get a book any longer, rather a Residence Permit sticker in your passport. You should be able to come and go freely until the permit expires. You'll still get your red Foreign Experts book.

3. If you are leaving for the summer and are planning on returning in September, it's probably a good idea to get that new contract signed now and have your new job (or continuing job) get all the paperwork done now, even if your current permit/visa has not expired.

4. Once you have a residence permit in your passport, a Z visa is irrelevent. Expired, not expired, single entry, multi entry . . . it doesn't matter. You'll want to flip open your passport to the page that has the FRP on it when you are coming back to China. (by the way, if you are like me and have several old visas stuck in your passport, it's a good idea to make a black "X" through them to save you and an airport officer from confusion later on)

Does that cover everything?

(Disclaimer: There still may be remote parts of China still doing it the "old way". Certainly most of the major metropolitan areas have updated to the new system.)

[Volodiya]

Kevin, if I may, I'd like to offer just a couple of "ahem"s to accompany your post. It all has to do with your paragraph "1". (As usual, the readers may find their experience will vary but, here goes.)

I think with the advent of the Residence Permit for Foreigners (stamp, placed in your passport), being implemented this year, which allows the holder to exit and re-enter China without a seperate visa, IMO, we will see less and less of multi-entry Z visas, and Z visas with long periods of validity. More and more people who qualify to receive a Z visa abroad will find they are given a single entry Z visa, even if they requested a multi-entry Z visa when they applied. This Z visa will allow them to enter the country to assume the post they've accepted. Within a short time of arriving at their post their employer will present their documents to the local authorities and a Foreign Experts Certificate booklet will be presented them, along with the RPF stamp in their passport. The single entry Z visa will be adequate to achieve this aim.

To apply for a Z visa abroad, the applicant will need, at a minimum, two documents he will have received from China: 1) an Official Invitation Notice for Chinese Visa Application; and, 2) a Foreign Experts Affairs Invitation Confirmation.

[kev7161]

As to a 3-month or longer Z visa, I was just advising the length of time if they were to come to China this summer. Summer camp jobs often advise you to get a tourist visa and that should suffice (if you were planning on going back home afterward). I'm not saying that's exactly legal, but that has been my experience. However, if you're coming to work in September, but want to explore China ahead of time (or work a summer camp), then you may want to get that Z visa for 3 months or more. Let's say you come here on July 1st and start your permanent job on September 1st. That's two months you won't have a residence permit. If your school is innundated with several FTs, then it may take them awhile to get everything processed for you. Better to be safe than sorry, don't you think?

I'm not sure the maximum length of a tourist's visa.

[Volodiya]

Hey, Kevin, I appreciate what you wrote, but I'm not at all sure this could work, I mean, to apply for a Z visa with the intent of vacationing in China for an extended period before beginning work; or, doing a summer camp before starting the "regular" job. Here's why I would be concerned. This suggestion seems to be ignoring the fact that the Z visa is based on a contract for employment with a specific employer: the "Official Invitation Notice for Chinese Visa Application", which the employee will need when he applies for the Z visa will specify the employer and the dates of employment; finally, the Z visa will, typically, give the employer and his employee a window of just 30 days, from the date of entry into China, in which to start processing for both the FRP and the FEC. In your hypothetical, these 30 days could have long since passed before the employee showed up for his contracted employment, and this paperwork process is initiated.

Time will tell whether Chinese Embassies and Consulates will continue to issue multiple entry (up to year long), Z visas. My prediction is that they will not.

[Volodiya]

SimonM wrote:

[clomper]

*sigh*

I went to the PSB with one of the secretaries in school. I was hoping I could renew my Z visa since I'll be working with the same school next year. They informed me that I can't renew my visa since there's still more than 2 months on it.

They suggested that I either come back here before the visa expires or apply a Z visa in another country prior to coming back to China.

So.. where can my school get that Invitation for Chinese Visa Application and the Foreign Expert stuff?? My school does not really know how to get these stuff. Is the Foreign Expert letter the same as the FEC? If so, mine is currently under processing. I will be able to get a current one by the end of the month. This is the first time they're processing our FEC. We used the Alien Employment Permit last year when we applied for a Z.

The PSB said we can't use the Alien Employment Permit any longer as we're applying as teachers. We really need the FEC to get a new visa.

[Volodiya]

Clomper, you have said you have a Z visa that is still current and that you are going to be working for the same employer in the coming year. You have said your employer is working on getting you a Foreign Experts Certificate.

In addition to the Foreign Experts Certificate (FEC) the only other thing you need is the Residence Permit for Foreigners (RPF), a sticker, placed in your passport. Both of these documents are issued, exclusively, in country. Not only are they issued "in country", they are the only documents an FT needs to live and work, lawfully, in China.

The RPF is a relatively new document, issued for the first time last November. It supplants the Z visa, once you're in country, and allows you to exit and re-enter China, freely, within its period of validity, without a visa.

You will be in fine shape if, before your Z visa expires, your employer will secure these two documents for you. It will not be necessary to extend or renew your Z visa, nor for you to travel abroad to obtain a new Z visa, if your employer acts in a timely fashion. This is so, because you will no longer have a need for a Z visa.

The documents you referred to, "Official Invitation Notice for Chinese Visa Application"; and, a "Foreign Experts Affairs Invitation Confirmation" are not necessary, in your case, unless you should decide, for some reason, that you wanted a new Z visa, as they are only used in the process of obtaining Z visas, abroad.

[Volodiya]

Kelownapair, is there something you'd like to tell us about what you decided to do to resolve some of your issues, or what you've found out, since you last posted?
______________________

Some have asked, where can you get a Z visa, abroad?

I've yet to run across anything that suggests you could not arrange, in cooperation with your prospective employer, to apply for a Z visa at any Chinese Consulate or Embassy, anywhere in the world.

Further to this, we have the post from no_exit, on May 22, speaking about the experience of another teacher she knows: