Job Discussion Forums

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Hello People:

Just a follow up thought which came to mind after reading Wolf's and MartinK's very candid posts.

I can remember when I lived in Asia that there was a kind of 'vicious circle' which developed. It went something like this: The first ten foreigners you meet or pass in the street sort of blow you off, look the other way, or somehow make it clear that they hate you. Then along comes foreigner #11, and you start thinking to yourself, "This guy's gonna be a jerk too, and then YOU ignore him.

And so the circle has a nasty habit of perpetuating itself.

During my 6 years in Asia I tried VERY hard to maintain a neutral stance and be friendly and polite to EVERYONE, regardless of nationality, but there were times when I found myself 'becoming' the very jerk I had originally despised.

I like Wolf's suggestion about developing some 'rules of engagement'. Any ideas? A wink, a nod? I know! A teddy-bear in the left pocket means you can approach me; a teddy-bear in the right pocket means "I'll make the first move", and a teddy-bear in both pockets means ... well ... you know what THAT means.

Have A Nice WeEkend,
kENt

[rogan]

I've done it, I confess.

Last summer in Samara I walked right by KeNt and I ignored him !!

Shame on me.

If only I'd known. !
If only I'd stopped and exchanged a brief 'hello' !

Regrets, I've had a few,
But then again, too few to mention.................

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Privyet Rogan

Well ... I'll forgive you this time, but don't let it happen again!

[cafebleu]

I`m in Japan and I understand that some other foreigners are only interested in the Japanese. However, there is a line to be drawn between rude, stay out of my sandbox behaviour, and not wanting to have an intimate conversation with a stranger just because they happen to be a foreigner.

My thing is - when walking along a street and seeing another foreigner coming, I will look in their direction and smile. I will say hallo to them if they look at me. This DOESN`T mean I want to take their time or if they are a member of the opposite sex, make a pass at them. What I do is mere courtesy and I don`t like it when other foreigners turn their heads on purpose or hurry past with a rude, don`t even think about looking at me expression on their face.

However, I understand the mentality that just because I am a foreigner doesn`t mean I want Japanese people to introduce me to other foreigners. Maybe because the Japanese usually have this fear of being outside a group and find it difficult generally to operate independently, they will assume foreigners need to be introduced to other foreigners.

Or another mentality is - please help this other foreigner, go to their house, even if you don`t know them. I was asked to do this last year by somebody who employs me part-time. I had to travel far to go to this job and this `lonely` foreigner (the Japanese person`s word) lived around that area. I was asked to visit them because they were lonely (supposedly - I don`t know) but at the same time I felt my boss was not being at all sensitive to me.

I had a lot going on in my life work wise and she knew that but she wanted me to travel out to the area again in my limited free time to cheer up a supposedly lonely foreigner. I did the usual acceptable excuse and said I was a little too busy at the moment. If the foreigner had lived in my area maybe I would have visited them after finding out more information.

[guest of Japan]

You're the guy who didn't come to my house!! I was waiting and waiting for some fun English conversation, but NOOOOOO! You were too busy to help out this poor lonely foreigner. Well FINE!

OK it wasn't really me, but it could have been.

I too have fallen victim to looking the other way when a foreigner passes me on the street. I'd rather pretend not to notice them than to get a cold snub when I try to not or greet them in anyway. But when someone does acknowlege my presense with a not or greating, I'm very happy to return the expression. Heck I even love giving new foreigners a little assistance if they are having trouble ordering food or something of the sort.

I've found that the French and German expats tend to be the worst sufferers of this syndrome in Japan. So the next time you get snubbed, just tell yourself he's French, then go to McDonald's and eat some freedom fries and you'll feel better.

[Shonai Ben]

Same problem.I have come across many other foreigners in my travels in Japan and unfortunately most of them did not reply to my simple "hello".
What is the problem?At first I thought it was me,maybe my nose was too big,I was too pushy,maybe I had BO.Hell,I had no idea,but I finally figured it out.It was not me,it was them.They apparently believe that they live in there own private world and I don't really exist.Now that took some getting used to.If I don't really exist,then why am I still meeting you?And if you really live in your own little world,then why did I happen to meet you by chance?
So I decided that I do actually exist,thank god,and now I still say "hello" and I don't give a damn if you reply or not.In fact I go out of my way to say hello now just so I can make you realize that you are not the only person alive in your silly little world.

[Roger]

There was a time when I would smile at any Westerner that came my way. Unfortunately, not everybody likes to identify with the teacher crowd. There are some expats in China that are on more generous packages, and they can afford a lifestyle that definitely puts me in the beggars' category.
but meeting teachers used to be interesting. Except that if the teacher was of the opposite sex it was a bit tricky. I remember a rather stormy episode with an Aussie girl who had found out I had a partner. i was not even trying to womanise, but she took it rather badly.

One inevitable evil in first encoubnters: "Where do you come from?" It puts me off. It is as silly as the questions my Chinese students ask the most regularly!

[Sunpower]

I ignore other foreigners I pass on the street.

If they smile or say hello, I repsond.

Why would I say hello - I don't say hello to people I pass walking down the street in Vancouver.

And with all the riff raff that seems to gravitate towards Asia from Canada and America some of the people I've met or see on the street don't interest me.

That's what I like about living in Asia - You don't have to say hello to someone because they're White and from an English - speaking country.

Do you guys say 'Hello' to the Phillipino, Indonesian and African labourers and maids when you pass them on the street?

Probably not, eh?

[Mike_2003]

I was in a bar once and a guy next to me starting talking to me. He was an EFL teacher and spent about 30 minutes telling me how he was really just like "one of the locals" and how intergrated and accepted he was after living here for two years. He seemed really pleased to have found someone to tell all this to, full of smiles and laughs. Eventually he asked me how long I'd been here so I told him three years. His smile turned to a bitter grimace and he didn't speak to me again! Bizarre...

[richard ame]

Hi again Forum
I have noticed that in this fair city of Izmir that the local ex-pat community seem to huddle together in one or two well known bars and basically if you feel the need for some stimulating and intellectually challenging conversation ( I use the phrase advisedly) thats where you go ,after a while you discover what a bunch od dysfuncial social misfits they are and then you understand why a lot of native speakers avoid each other ,this is especially among the Brits of which I am ashamed to say I am one of them I mix with them on the rare occassion when it suits me . In the past I used to be fairly confrontational especially when listening to some Dershane dipstick spout about how wonderful he /she is at teaching and how many of their students they got drunk with or slept with,this does wonders as you can imagine for our image so mainly for this reason and others that would take too long to mention I generally try to steer clear of my fellow countrymen,Yanks and Kiwis and Aussies are usually O.K but Brits are so sandbox minded it must be the Island metality thats why I left Jersey to get away from that petty small minded kind of people ,hopefully they will go back home and I can get back to building my sandcastles . Nuff said .

[chi-chi]

[Africaexpert]

Just because other ESL teachers come from the same country as you, or even speak the same language as you does not mean you're going to want them for friends. Come on now, back in your country you do choose your friends, don't you? That shouldn't change when you go overseas. Believe me, you are not going to want every person who teaches ESL to be your friend.
When I was overseas, I deliberately choose a living situation which was not in an area with lots of Americans, as I wanted the experience of living in a foreign country, and not in what essentially was an American college dormitory. Other Americans thought this odd.
I guess I'm just not a follower.
Another thing, if one is overseas in a place for a long time, they will have developed friendships, maybe with natives, maybe with other expats, and may not need to make friends with every backpacker that comes along for a one-year stint. These "friendships" get tiresome when one is on the giving end over and over every year as backpackers take advantage of friendship extended then move on to the next victim in the next country and never give the "friend" a second thought.

[Sunpower]

For the most part, a lot of people in this business are not around long enough to get to know.

In 6 months they're gone.

...Now I've got that James Taylor song in my head.

'When you're down and troubled and you need a helping hand and nothing is going right. Close your eyes and think of me and soon I'll be there to brighten up even your darkest night. You just call out my name and you know wherever I am, I'll come running to see you again. Winter, Spring, Summer or Fall, all you got to do is call and I'll be there. You've got a friend...."

[cafebleu]

Honestly, Sunpower, I smile and nod at foreigners of ALL nationalities. This includes smiling and nodding to Iranian people, for example, the overwhelming majority of whom return my brief greeting.

I agree with the view you should choose your friends, not have them forced on you. That`s one of the reasons (but not the chief reason), I didn`t travel so far from where I live to visit a foreigner I had never met. However, simple courtesy is different from being forced to socialise with other foreigners you may or may not like.

That`s my point - for me it`s simple courtesy to smile, nod or say good morning or whatever to another foreigner - black or white or from another culture.

[Sunpower]

Saying hello to other Foreigner = Saying hello to the Caucasian Faces we cross paths with...usually other EFL'ers.

No?

I enjoy the anonymity of being able to move around in Shinjuku or Taipei stations and then disappear into a sea of Asians.

I notice other Foreigners (White English Teachers) will look down at the side walk or up towards the sky as I pass just as so long they don't have to say hello.

The Phillipino, African and Indonesians will sometimes say hello though.

Do you think it's just me being overly sensitive about this?

The White Western polulations are growing in Asia and I don't think People can realistically just say hello to everybody anymore.

What do you do in a place like Rappongi or Shinjuku, Akasaka or Shibuya.

Thinking that you should say hello or give a nod to every White Westerner you see on the street in Asia is silly nonsense.

But if it makes you feel good - then go ahead an say hello or nod to all the White and Non-White foreigners that pass you by in Tokyo.

This has nothing to do with a "stay out of my sandbox mentality' or a "pecking order" mentality.

It's just not practical or necessary.