|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
|
 Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:38 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| cj750 wrote: |
| In the city of Dalian...where you were last year tw, they have recently converted from F to Z..yes convertion is still taking place .and yes z visas can be issued in country..the law states under special circumstances. I have been issued 3 z visas from inside China. |
Are you sure it's F to Z and not L to Z?  F to Z is one of the most difficult if not impossible conversions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Volodiya
Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
On some of these questions we'll have a clearer picture after the next round of new hires for the fall; but, we have the guidelines used by the State Foreign Expert Affairs Bureau which we can consult, now, for some of the answers.(*)
http://www.china-tesol.com/SAFEA_Guide/safea_guide.html
tw, according to the guidelines, people coming to teach for less than six months, can do so on an F visa. (Those coming to teach for six months, or longer, are supposed to enter on a Z visa.)
| Quote: |
| 4. Visa F is issued to those who come to China to visit, teach, do business, or for cultural, scientific or technological exchanges for less than six months. |
Regarding brsmiths comment that you can't be issued a Z visa, in country, I have to go with cj750 on this one: Chinese Law does allow this possibility, as cj750 pointed out, it's just that, as a procedural matter, the authorities have started limiting the use of the exception cj750 refers to, making it hard (perhaps impossible in some provinces) to get the documentation you need to work lawfully, if you didn't enter the country on a Z visa. (In some cases, after locating a job, FTs have had to leave China to obtain a Z visa, abroad; then, re-enter.)
Chengdude wrote:
| Quote: |
| You are addressing the new law that came into effect this year stating schools can no longer convert L or F visas into Z visas once inside the country. |
Chengdude, can you give us a website for this new law? You see, at this point I don't yet have any reason to think there was a change in the law. What I think happened is that they simply changed the way they were applying the existing law and, that, as I said earlier, "...as a procedural matter, the authorities have started limiting the use of the exception" (contained in Article 8, of the laws regulating the employment of foreigners).
As for your belief that, "...you cannot get a Residence Permit without a Z", I'm not sure there is a good reason to take that strong a position, as it goes against the experience of a number of posters to this forum; further, I'm not aware of any provision in Chinese Law that would require that result. Perhaps someone can supply us a website to official, Chinese material to that effect, if there is such (I mean, we're trying to learn here as we go along, and we're all in this together).
___________________
The most common, recent phenomena has been, not to give a "Z visa", in country, to someone who's entered on another type of visa but, rather, to give them a "Residence Permit for Foreigners" and a "Foreign Expert Certificate"- which are, after all, the only two documents you must have to be completely legalized and regularized as a foreign teacher on a contract of six months, or more.
I've been trying to track which provinces severely limit this practice, but I have no information on what's happening in the following:
Chongqing, Gansu, Guangxi, Guizhou, Heilongjiang, Hubei, Jiangxi, Jilin, Ningxia, Qinghai, Shaanxi, Shanghai, Tianjin, Xinjiang
It would be nice to hear from some people familiar with what's happening in those, but this may have to wait for the fall term to begin....
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=25266
__________________
(*) I'm relying on the latest copy of these guidelines I can find. If someone has a more recent edition, with any changes noted, please give us the website for it, because I have lingering doubts about whether there may have been some changes since this edition was published. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just for clearification...a student visa can have a "Residence Permit for Foreigners" so it is not ony the Z visa that can afford you this opportunity.
Furthermore you need a residence permit to allow other admin advantages...such as driver's licence |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Do you think it wise to say things like: "it is possible to get a Z visa under certain conditions" or "you could get a Z visa in certain areas"?
Wouldn't it make more sense for anyone coming to China to not take that risk and just get your Z visa before you come? I understand posters trying to be helpful by giving as much different information as possible to newcomers reading this forum for help - - but TOO MUCH help and TOO MUCH information can often become confusing and sometimes send the wrong signals for those that don't know what's going on.
The bottom line is this (IMO): Get your Z visa BEFORE you come to China. Get your Residence Permit as soon as you can after arrival. Don't let your visa and/or permit expire. If you're staying, get your permit renewed. Don't become entangled in "special circumstances" if at all possible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| i would say the type of visa you want should relate to the type of existance you want in China...for example in Beijing most of the FTs, even the ones with teaching licences for other countires, seem to favor the F visa because they do not pay tax and they have no contract obligation that is enforcable. I on the other hand have to have a z because of the requirement for a divers licence..it is all in the type of existance..and the issued z doesnt give you any protection against problems of special circumstancesx..as a matter of fact it may obligate yu to more than your fair sahre of trouble and paperwork resulting in a costly fix...this is the reality of china..so it is my intention to tell of the many ways in which it is done and leave it to the abilities of the poster to choose. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Keath
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 129
Location: USA / CHINA / AUSTRALIA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
PSB
INTERVIEW QUESTIONS: GUYS
1. Did you come here to exploit our Chinese women?
2. Are you sure?
3. Really?
4. Do you find Asian women attractive?
5. Did you ever pay for sex?
6. Will you teach my children privately for free?
INTERVIEW QUESTIONS: GIRLS
1. Will you teach my children privately for free? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alex_P
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 174
Location: Hangzhou. Zheijiang, China
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:41 am Post subject: Conversion of Visas |
|
|
| tw wrote: |
| brsmith15 wrote: |
| THE Z VISA IS AN ENTRY VISA!!!!! It's only good to get into the country. No one can issue another Z visa once you're here! |
Obviously there are many people under the illusion that one can still just show up in China with a tourist visa looking for work and then getting that tourist visa "upgraded" to a work visa. That, or some schools are still telling people to do that -- especially for teaching summer camps. |
First, I have been in several provinces over the last several years and in all of these provinces and in all cases the conversion of a tourist visa to a Z visa has been handled seamlessly and rapidly. In one case, the FAO himself actually walked the papers through the entire process with me in hand, in one morning, from doctor's visit to PSB to everything.
And I am aware that this conversion of visas continues in many, many other provinces.
And someone who has posted here has written, this is China and what is done in one particular city in one particular regio in one particular province is often not done in the same manner elsewhere.
I changed jobs twice in the province where I am now and in each case the process was different, sometimes radically. But in both cases in what handled seamlessly. I truly admire the Chinese bureaucracy. I did a visa conversion for a good friend in the States and it took three-or-four years and lots of perils. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Conversion of Visas |
|
|
Lately, a poster put up a sticky of which provinces convert tourist to work visas in-country, and which ones don't. There's tons of great info there on FRPs as well, so it doesn't make sense to repeat discussion on it here.
If a province doesn't convert a tourist visa, it can be done outside the country, or in Hong Kong for that matter. As long as you have the necessary documents from the FAO, permission letter, invitation letter, etc. it's the same process as if you did it from your home country.
Past readers of my posts know that I argue in favor of SHOWING UP on a tourist visa and then changing it to a Z after landing a good job, but I want to stress that actually WORKING on a tourist visa is illegal and I don't favor that at all.
If you think about it, you are going through the same process of applying for a Z-visa, whether it's in your home country, China, or a 3rd country.
The advantage of showing up on a tourist is that you can scout around for jobs, take your time to see a variety of offers, and talk to potential employers face-to-face before making a decision. If you get a Z before coming over, you are restricted to a job search in your home country, and you may not get all the information you need.
On the other hand, job-hunting on a tourist visa is best done for those who have been to China before and/or have some knowledge of the language and culture. If you have an offer lined up and you're satisfied, might as well get the Z at home. Even if you apply for the Z in China, you still go through the same paperwork (or maybe less).
Steve |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
