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veiledsentiments

Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Are you Muslim? If you are not, I don't understand your choice at all.
Do you have kids? Do you realize how expensive the schools are for your kids in Saudi? If they are Arabic-speaking and Muslim, they may be able to go to the local schools. But, I'm not sure if I'd want my kids in these schools.
If your goal is to earn decent money, you have two options. The best is probably to get out the EFL field altogether and go back to chemistry or computers. The only other choice is to get an MA.
VS |
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Henry_Cowell

Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: reason for working in saudi |
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WiseMan wrote: |
One of the main reasons for me looking at Saudi is for the culture... I want to find this hypothetical utopia.... |
And how is KSA (of all places you could choose) going to provide any of the elements of your utopia? |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005 Posts: 958
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:17 pm Post subject: Hypothetical Utopia |
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WM,
This time I am going to ask you a question: you say that you want to go to KSA for the culture, but then from your expressed desire to give your children a better future, it would very much appear that you want to go there for the money.
You talk about your hypthetical Utopia. Do you mean this from a personal/cultural perspective, or from a financial prespective? You must distinguish between the two, because the functions of KSA regarding the two are very different respectively.
From your wish to improve your financial lot, and your previous postings, I suspect that your main motive is financial. If if so, be very clear about this.
If you are going for the culture, what do you know about the country? Are you aware of how different it is to the UK, or to the west generally?
Please do NOT get me wrong here, and indeed, those who are used to my postings will know that I have a lot of respect for the Saudis and their culture, and that not only do I not mind being there, I enjoy working in KSA. If I didn't, I wouldn't conisder doing it for one second. As regular readers can also testify, one of my pet hates is the whinging-KSA-westerner who still stays there for half a lifetime!
However, becoming an actual part of the local culture is a very different matter. You are a westerner, and I presume, a non-muslim. You are not a local, and the vast majority of them actually respect you for that. Yes, some may make mild attempts to convert you, but I have never experienced any forceful efforts. The point is, they know and understand that culturally, you have a very different perspective and as a non-muslim, and non-arab, they would be the first to accept that as a permanent resident, you would be highly unlikely to fit in there.
As I say, I enjoy working there, and respect the locals a lot. I have some very good Saudi friends. They likewise respect me for my religious and cultural background -western and Christian- and would be more surprised than anyone if I expressed a wish to settle there permanently. In any case, unless you were to convert to Islam, your residence visa there as a westerner is job-specific.
If your motives are financial, you must get that clear in your head. I say this because Saudi Arabia is not for everyone. Some like it, most tolerate it, and a number hate it. It really is a very different culture, that you could very well find to be a shock to the system. It has many fine points, such as low-crime, a safer and actually more nurturing environment for young children, very friendly warm-hearted people once you get to know them, and a fascinating culture and landscape that could be a wonderland for your developing children.
It also has drawbacks, however. I say this not as a criticism of the place, but as a reality check. Your wife, if she is a westerner, may very well find it difficult over the long term. I'm not saying she will, I am saying that she MIGHT. If she is accustomed to being an independent working woman, in KSA her options would me more limited. Does she value her automotive independence? In Saudi, she cannot drive at all. The drivers there are pretty appalling at any rate, and though I have pretty much got used to them, it can scare the hell out of many. I have seen grown men cry tears of anguish after attempting to drive in Saudi!!!!
You need to go there hoping for the best but expecting the worst.
You may like it a lot, along with your wife and family. In that case, you could easily make a long-term career of working there, and find a little piece of paradise elsewhere to retire early. Maybe a converted barn in Languedoc? A nice apartment overlooking Jumeirah Beach in Dubai? Or an old farmhouse in Transylvania....who knows?
You may decide that it's tolerable, that you can do it for a few years, but not a lifetime. Most westerners there fall into this category, I would think. Your wife might decide that it's worth living with for a few years in order to support you in building a better financial future. In this case, you would need long holidays (Universities/CCs/Industrial colleges), in a place you would like to call your real home, wherever that may be. You would also, more to the point, need to keep your whole situation and motives in clear perspective.
Then again, you might hate and despise it the second you step off the plane, looking at the departure timetable before you even leave the airport! My advice in that case would be to leave, as life is much too short to be miserable. At most, you would only want to serve out your year. Of course, many hate it the moment they step onto the tarmac but grow to like it a lot over time. You should give it a chance in any event.
From a purely practical viewpoint, private schools in the Kingdon are indeed expensive, and the public ones are not where you would send your kids, as they are very much for Arabic-speaking, Muslim local children. They are also reputed to be not very good, their curriculum would certainly be lacking in a global perspective, and most well-off Saudis tend to avoid them. In fact, they probably wouldn't even admit your children, as they are not Saudis.
You must, needless to say, think out all aspects of your situation. I hope that I have given you, and anyone else in your situation, further food for thought. |
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WiseMan
Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 8 Location: England
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
The replies are definitely making me think about my situation, but I need to check things out and the future of my family is very important. I could happily carry on working in the UK and retire at a grand old age, but where�s the fun in that.
I am a Muslim and have been to Saudi for the Hajj a couple of years ago, I really enjoyed the people and the environment.
I was told by one of my tutors at the TESOL course that I might have a chance to find employment if I was to go to Saudi Mecca on Umrah (the lesser pilgrimage) and while there to look for language schools. This to me sounds very appealing, as a Muslim I can easily get a visa for umra at anytime of the year and stay in Mecca for around a month and maybe also visit Medina. Is this a reasonable way to look for employment there?
my tutor has got 18 years of experience in the Middle East and seems to know what he is talking about, but is it practically possible and what difficulties might I encounter if I was to take this approach? |
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Henry_Cowell

Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 3352 Location: Berkeley
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, WiseMan, for explaining your situation more fully. I can understand your plans now. Cheers and good luck! |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005 Posts: 958
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:49 pm Post subject: KSA jobs |
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You hadn't mentioned before that you are a Muslim. That puts things in a slightly different...and I would say, better...light for you. However, never be too sure with Saudi. As with the rest of us, there's ultimately only one way to find out what it's like!!
On a practical note, you seem obsessed with the language schools. Notwithstanding my earlier postings about using language schools to get a foot in the door, I meant this purely as a last resort. They pay crappy money, generally speaking. Anyway, there are only a few of the larger franchise operations, such as IH and Direct English. The smaller operations are highly unlikely to hire you, Muslim or not. If they did, they would treat you as local hire and pay you a pittance.
If you are planning on physically going there to seek work, go for broke and approach the CCs, universities and the Royal Commission. However, bear in mind the huge size of the Kingdom, which may make it impractical to travel around to places other than Jeddah/Makkah/Madinah (you might give the new place in the last mentioned city, Taibah Univ., a shot). By and large, there are NOT many good prospects in Jeddah, unless you try the private secondary schools like Dar Al Fikr or Manarat (not great money but decent accom, at least in DAF), or KAAU. At this time of year, they are on holidays, as are the third level institutions, come to think of it.
If you go to Saudi in person, you will only find yourself coming into contact with smaller language schools who are unlikely to hire you, or who would hire you anyway, even from a distance. Personally, I would question the wisdom of going there to look for work. If you want to go for religious reasons, that's different of course...but don't hold out much hope of finding a good job there that way.
Your tutor who spent 18 years in the ME: was that Saudi, or one of the other Gulf states such as UAE? The situation there is quite different to Saudi. Maybe VS could offer some advice there? Either way, language schools are NOT going to make you rich. Not as a teacher, anyway!!!!
Best of luck, we might even cross paths in KSA sometime! |
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31
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 1797
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Your tutor who spent 18 years in ME-It is a wonder he was compos mentis enough to have survived any job let alone teacher training after that. |
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