Job Discussion Forums

[leroy]

I have to concur with Mr. Gerrard on this one. The BC wasn't closed last year by the police or tax authorities or anyone. As for the standard of teaching, it's the best in Russia by a long chalk. No cutting and pasting going on either- I don't know what you're on about there, Wonderwall.

I haven't heard that examiners from other schools will be getting the boot anytime soon- would be a shame for them as they need to top up their incomes any way they can (well, not any way but you know what I mean). BC teachers generally don't do much examining because they earn a packet anyway and value their time off. The only reason they might do it is because it is very handy to be an examiner if looking to work in another BC somewhere in the world.

[Wonderwall]

No, the BC didn't turn me down. In point of fact I worked for them for over eight years in different countries around the globe.

As an ELT professional, rather than a 'corporate' teacher, my allegance is to the development of ELT as a profession and not to any single organisation, however much money they may offer; as I'm not one of Thatcher's generation.

If anything, I'm a person that still believes that there are people out there who want to help people for no rewards other than those of realising that one has done a job because of vocation rather than monetary gain.

I thought the Council shared the same view being a 'non-profit making organisation'. Sadly, I was wrong.

[leroy]

As you know, the British Council aint perfect but it's better than any other school I have ever worked for. I'm not working my arse off doing 5 split shifts a week in rubbish classrooms with limited resources to students of varying ability in the same group for the amount of money paid by BKC, LL and the like. No one is in EFL for the money but at least on a BC salary you can have a decent standard of living and not live like an ageing student.

[Wonderwall]

I do not disagree with you at all Leroy; why do you think I worked with the BC for so long?! And I certainly agree that most institutions expect teachers to live as 'ageing students'! As I once said to an IH DOS (before I joined the Council); "Me? Get married? How?". "The only option I have is marry another (female) EFL teacher on my salary!". Why do you think there are so many "professional EFL couples". Let's be honest, who else would/could marry an EFL teacher on the salary most schools (don't) pay?!

As far as I'm concerned the BC offers the best option for (most, if not all) ELT teachers regarding salary, work environment, resources and 'human understanding' regarding timetabling and that I would never deny. At one point I was earning GBP 2,000 per month as a teacher for 24 'real' contact hours! (believe it or not!), so I would never ever imply that the BC are 'underpayers!'. In fact my ex-IH DOS was earning GBP 500 less than me!

About two weeks after I joined the BC, I was 'stuck' on the table at a reception with my newly appointed 'BC Country Director'. He asked me how long I'd been with the Council, and so I told him. He then asked me where I'd worked before the BC and I told him that I'd been at IH (this wasn't in Moscow btw!).

His reply was very interesting and perhaps very indicative of th Council's attitude, for he replied "That's what we like. IH trains them and then we nick them! Welcome aboard!"

My advice to everyone regarding the BC has always been the same; it's a great place for teachers to be at, but I'm not so sure whether it's a great place for students.

You know yourself that there are teachers and then there are teachers. Which one the students get is pot luck.

I wish you well and the BC as well. There is no animosity between us. I just feel that they should 'push the envelope' more, which as you know they don't want to do unfortunately...

I wish you well in your future career with the BC, whether in Russia or wherever!. Good luck

[leroy]

2000 GBP a month is pretty standard for British Council, especially for hardship posts (In Russia they don't get much less) so it's alright, we do believe you.

As for IH training up it's teachers- don't make me laugh! Admittedly, my only experience of IH is in Russia (and, very briefly in Italy) but they are no better than other language schools really and in many ways much worse - they seem to rest too much on their IH laurels when it's only a franchise and has no bearing on quality. It's a good place for a first job and a decent enough place for students on a budget to study but it isn't as great as it makes itself out to be. They have trainers for this and DOSes for that and Assistant DOSes and Senior Teachers, and Heads of Exams and whole recruitment departments and yadda-yadda-yadda, most of whom are completely unnecessary but which all adds to the school's sense of self-importance and inflated ego ("Oh, but we are International House, don't you know? " Answer: "And?")

British Council lessons are expensive for students but I think they get their money's worth. Although of course there are some better teachers than others, they all know what they are doing. A student may get a teacher they don't particularly like but at least they know this teacher is experienced and fully-qualified and they're not shelling out all their hard-earned cash for a dipstick in a baseball cap who is fresh out of his frat-house and wouldn't know a grammatical tense if it bit him on the arse. That's the real lottery when it comes to teachers, not the one at the BC, where classes change teachers every 12 (or 8, depending on where you work) weeks.

Although you yourself Wonderwall appear to have no ill feeling towards the British Council, there are plenty of teachers in Russia who do, mainly because they have tried to get a job there and failed- some several times.

[steven_gerrard]

[bigmak]

What does 'best by a long chalk' mean, leroy? Individual teachers? On average? Value for money? Facilities? Learning experience?

I know a teacher there who freely admits to being shocked that an outfit with such a reputation would stoop so low as to employ him - so shocked, in fact, that he can't believe his luck. True, they don't employ backpackers or fresh undergrads arriving with a bag-load of Chekhov and Tolstoy books out to decipher the mysterious and impenetrable 'Russian soul' (BKC/LL et al), but there are some cynical 'older' TEFL-heads that subscribe to (indeed thrive on) the churn-em-and-burn-em strategy, including at the BC in Russia and beyond.

BC sells itself on its name and the (for some reason widely believed) notion that it is somehow affiliated with the British government, which is NOT the same as selling itself on a hard-earned reputation. In fact, to pull Michael Owen up, I'd say they could do with a few MORE non-native examiners.

Truth is - Russians can be - and usually are - mugged by ALL the organisations that offer 'educational services' in Russia (BC, BKC, LL and the shoddy rackets run by Russians).

And before Michael Owen pipes up - NO! In actual fact I turned THEM down.

[leroy]

I wouldn't disagree with anything you said there, BigMak. The BC is by no means perfect but I would say that as schools go, you won't do much better in Russia. Students do learn and progress, which is more than I can say for some schools. As the BC does not advertise, I often ask my students how they heard about the Council and more often than not, the answer is "personal recommendation" so they must be doing something right. The case about Russians being "mugged" by schools is true but I think the are less conned by the BC than the BKCs and LLs and the two-bit operations like Sunny Plus which reckon they are something special. At least if the British Council says it's offering qualified, experienced native-speakers, this is what it actually provides, rather than the "My Name Is Helen" Russian teachers who are told to pass themselves off as natives speakers under pain of death or someone completely new to teaching who doesn't know what on earth they are doing.

The cynical old-timers are slowly being edged out but they do exist (less so in Russia than in other BCs around the network, though). Perhaps your friend who works in the BC needs to have more confidence in himself, he does have the Dip after all- no mean achievement. I don't know of any rubbish teachers there, though as pointed out before, of course there are some more popular than others.

Of course working for the BC doesn't suit eveyone, as you yourself will know if you turned down a contract there. Some teachers see it as a little "corporate" and kind of what they wanted to avoid when they went into EFL in the first place. Having said that though, it is probably the only organisation in EFL where there is real room for personal and career development and of course you have the opportunity to work in other countries for a decent salary and benefits package. For a teacher who sees their immediate career lying in EFL, there really is no other option.

As for the examining- the whole thing needs reshaping and reorganising in Russia, though it is probably no worse here than anywhere else. If you're looking for a real con in EFL, this is it.

[bigmak]

Leroy

How do you know my 'friend' has a 'Dip'? Don't tell me you're also aware of this person's reputation? Or are you inferring that (s)he must have a Dip due to the BC's recruitment procedures? I don't know if (s)he has a Dip. As far as I know, a Dip isn't a 'must' at the BC - in Moscow or elsewhere. Not exactly otiose but not exactly crucial, either. Or am I wrong re BC Moscow?

[leroy]

Bigmak- you're quite right- the Dip is not a minimum requirement for the Russia BC but it is in most countries where the BC operate and for countries that don't require it, you usually have to do it within the first 18 months of your contract. Russia is exempt from this because it is classes as a "hardship country" by the Foreign Office and therefore is considered difficult to recruit for (which is true, actually. Hence how your mate, if they are really as terrible as they claim, slipped in)

To be fair, I don't know who you are talking about and wouldn't like to speculate but I do know that while the dip is not compulsory in Russia, the vast majority of the teachers have it and all teachers are informally expected to do it (hence the financial support offered to anyone who wants to do it). It certainly is a must if you want to leave BC Russia and apply for jobs pretty much anywhere else within the BC.

[Katyusha]

2000GBP a month for a hardship post in Moscow? Does that include apartment allowanc? Does BC dish out end of contract bonus as well? What's so hard about living in Moscow anyway? Haven't they just had some underground bombings in London?

Isn't it who you know that will get you a job, rather than what you have? I thought most BC centres just ask for CELTA plus 2 years of teaching experience.

[leroy]

What's so hard about living in Russia? In theory nothing. In practice pretty much everything. Don't get me wrong- it's not like living in a gulag but the winter is harsh, bureaucracy can be a nightmare and whatever anyone says, it is an expensive place to live. Ask me exactly what is expensive here and I can't tell you but I do know that my money doesn't go as far here as it does pretty much elsewhere. I don't quite know what the London bombings have to do with anything but Russia has unfortunately had it's fair share of similar terrorist acts and this may be another reason why the BC find it difficult to recruit teachers from outside Russia. You obviously have some connection with Russia so you should know yourself. I happen to think that the benefits of living here outweigh the negatives but many people don't and I can understand why. Had I never been to Russia before taking up my post, I wouldn't have fancied it on the strength of what I had heard.

As for what you need to get a job at the BC, yep, the minimum is CELTA +2 yrs (though as discussed many centres set their own standards -most European centres and elsewhere require the DELTA) In practice I have never heard of anyone with such little experience getting a contract anywhere in the BC (and I have been about a bit).

[canucktechie]

[steven_gerrard]

The British Council in Russia find it very difficult to attract teachers from within the Council itself (ie other network centres). Yes, there are lots of teachers in Moscow with Cert + 2 years but it doesn't mean they have what it takes to get a contract at the BC. The British Council is not interested in employing those who want an extension of their uni days, the sex tourists or the lost souls type who end up at BKC and LL. I can't see any contradictions in Leroy's thread really.

I'd also agree that money does not go very far in Moscow and I can't put my finger on it either. I find supermarkets are expensive (even compared to supermarkets in the UK). Yes, I am well aware that if I seek out markets and buy produce there I can get cheaper food but to be honest I don't have time and I can't be bothered. Clothes and footwear are also extremely expensive, as are flights out of the place. If you want to fly back to Britain (or holiday) 3 times a year, this will cost you. No budget airlines fly to Moscow from the UK at bargain prices and any flights are only to London so if you don't live in the South East of England, add your extra transport costs on. You can't just pop home for the weekend for next to nothing as you can from most European countries. Housing (per square metre) is also painfully expensive and the quality is variable. If you have a family then Moscow is not really an option. Apart from schooling for your kids at international schools being prohibitively expensive here, the place isn't really child-friendly. I know your average TEFL-er doesn't have kids (or if they do, they don't travel with them) but many BC Network teachers do travel with their families. I suppose BC teachers tend to be a little older than your typical BKC/LL teacher so they have other concerns.

No, I don't think Moscow is as expensive as it is often reported to be but it certainly isn't cheap. I don't frequent clubs like "Nightflight" and make use of the services offered there nor do I have a Russian girlfriend bleeding me dry but I am amazed how quickly my money goes here.

[leroy]