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eng
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 16
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 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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i guess it's one of those things that are clearer when said than when written? when you talk, intonation and stress come into play...when you write things down, it's not always easy to figure out which words should be stressed  does that make any sense? my brain's ready to shut down...
| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| teacheringreece wrote: |
| "my boss did not sign my vacation permit form so that i couldn't go on vacation (here, boss is an evil, vindictive b*tch who deliberately did not sign my permit form so now i'm stuck at the office)" |
Actually, this sentence doesn't say what you think it does -- because of the double negative used along with "so that". I think you should instead contrast the following two sentences:
My boss did not sign my vacation permit form so that I could go on vacation. So I couldn't go on vacation. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Can somebody give me a synonym for "so that"? I want a synonym that actually conveys the same meaning. "because" and "'cause" do NOT carry the same meaning.
Please wear your strongest shoes so that your feet can withstand the rocks and gravel on this road. |
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Birdog3344
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 126
Location: Osaka, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| "so that ______ can" can be replaced by; "in order for _______ to". |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Please wear your strongest shoes so that your feet can withstand the rocks and gravel on this road. |
Remove that, as is common in US and CDN Engish.
"Please wear your strongest shoes so your feet can..."
I think with 'in order to', you have to make several changes to the sentence. |
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eng
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:44 pm Post subject: because |
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thanks for pointing that out. i guess we were so focused on using "so (that)" in answers: why did you take a taxi? so (that) i'd get to the theater on time/because i wanted to get to the theater on time. ok, so "because" can't be directly substituted for "so", but with some restructuring, because can be used to convey same meaning. but in commands, it doesn't quite work that way: read the manual so that you'll know what to do. read the manual because it will tell you what to do. (?) hmmm...kind of awkward. but then again, if one of my students were to say that, people might still be able to understand them. english (even among native speakers) is not always the same; and since our students ARE taking english as a second (third, fourth...) language, even if they don't say things the way you might, at the end of the day, it's about their being able to get their point across. so if a korean were to say to me: read the manual because it will tell you what to do, i think i'd know what he meant.
this is all very helpful. thanks for your help
| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| Cdaniels wrote: |
| There are so many better alternatives. Even slang " 'cause " is more clear. |
In which version of English is because a synonym for so that?? |
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eng
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject: thanks |
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| hi everyone! i just wanted to say thanks to all of you i really appreciate all the help. you brought up a lot of things for me to consider when planning more activities for this topic. this is a lesson i'm not particularly fond of--differentiating (and) so and so (that)--but it's one of the required topics |
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