Job Discussion Forums

[jeffinflorida]

As of right now I still work here. The Former FAO - now my teaching assistant - came over to discuss the situation with me.

He said that they would have great difficulty finding a replacement FT right now and would I still teach. There was no care or concern for me, just in the difficulty in replacing me.

I have agreed to teach Monday's class but that was more of a favor to the former FAO than anything else.

I have sent the FAO girl a response to her email stating that in my opinion SHE broke the contract by telling me to go teach somewhere else and not paying me last month's salary and that there was no longer a "Spirit Of Friendly Cooperation" between us.

We agreed to continue talks tomorrow.

In response to the comment that I have be a rich man to throw
20,000 rmb away - the answer is...I USED to be a rich man before the divorce...

[kev7161]

Everyone seems to be brow-beating Jeff. Yes, he's been here for awhile so, yes, he should know "how things are" around here. Yes, the way they do their holidays are absurd, but . . . "when in China . . . ", right? WRONG!

If it is a 3-day National CHINESE holiday, then why in h ell is it called "Golden WEEK"? Why am I being forced to celebrate a CHINESE holiday for a full week yet only being given one day off for Christmas (one of my most important holidays)? Okay, so those are rhetorical questions but . . . my new school, to date, has not given me nor any of the foreign teachers a schedule for this semester (whether it be tentative or not). However, the Chinese teacher who co-teaches my class does have a schedule. Why is that do you suippose?

Every year . . . wait, every DAY practically, things change in China. Heck, even the so-called Chinese New Year is not the same date from year to year. So, if policies and rules and laws and so on change all the time, wouldn't it be prudent to apprise FOREIGNERS of these changes asap? We had a teacher's meeting the second week of September and I asked for the actual dates of this year's National Day holiday. We were told that nobody knew yet, they were waiting on the government's word. I then asked if I could be told as soon as they knew. About a week or so before October first, I went ahead and booked a flight and hotel for October 2nd to 5th and then told my FA office about it. "Oh yes," I was told, "the holiday is from the 1st to the 7th." I guess they forgot to tell me!

You would think at that time they would have told me the change in schedule (working the weekend after the holiday) at that time just to make clear I knew when to come in, but that rarely happens, does it? I happened to mention it to my co-teacher and she looked on her computer (where the schedule is emailed to her, I imagine) and told me about this weekend.

So, I agree that it is our responsibility to find out what's going on, especially when it comes to the freaky holidays around here. However, if we actually DO ask and the information is not forthcoming in a timely manner, then who should be held accountable? Should we just lounge around our apartment in our boxers awaiting the time to be summoned? Should we always assume we will work the weekend after? What if it is the weekend before instead? What if it's two extra Saturdays afterward with Sundays off? If the Chinese teachers are being told (even if it's a only a few days before the actual event) then why, pray tell, should we FTs not be told as well? Wouldn't the school (especially ones that have been doing this for years and years) possibly come to the conclusion that a brief email or phone call would save EVERYONE a lot of headaches? For that matter, why doesn't the school just naturally put this information in their contracts and bold the information and talk about it before hiring? It would seem not only the smart thing to do, but also the professional and polite thing to do as well.

It's not only holidays, by the way. It's testing days, sporting events, parents days, any event or occasion that changes the normal schedule. I worked TWO YEARS at a school where I (and all the FTs) begged constantly to be let known just a little ahead of time when there would be schedule changes. It was a rare day indeed when this happened.

JeffinFlorida, good luck. I understand completely from where you come. Some of you "newbie" posters may not yet have felt the frustrations the "Chinese way" will bring you . . . just wait.

[bdawg]

heh heh heh...a few posters have highlighted the issue of employers informing employees of schedule changes.

I keep thing about Office Space

Lumburgh -Hey Peter....What's happening? Ummm, I'm gonna need you to go ahead and come in tomorrow. So if you could be here around nine, that would be great. Mmmm'k? Oh, oh, and I almost forgot. Ahhh... I'm gonna also need you to come in on Sunday too. We, ummm, lost some people this week and uhhh... we need to sorta play catch up.

Thanks a bunch!.[/i]

People always seem to complain about that problem here in China...as if it only happens here. Happens everywhere...I ALWAYS got called into work on short notice back in Canada...the only difference being I usually got a bit more money. Yeah, it sucks that you weren't informed, but making huge scenes isn't going to assist your cause nor improve relations with your employer. You just got to bite the bullet deal with it just time, while informing your employer that you wish to be informed of such things in the future. You can use this as leverage should they try to pull something like this again.

On another note, arguments such as this do very little to improve FT's images in China, nor the image of your nationality. I know it sounds cheezy, but many people forget that they are, to the Chinese, a representation of their respective home country. An ambassador, in a word. What they see is what they believe.

[tw]

[Starry Night]

[quote="kev7161"]Everyone seems to be brow-beating Jeff. Yes, he's been here for awhile so, yes, he should know "how things are" around here. Yes, the way they do their holidays are absurd, but . . . "when in China . . . ", right? WRONG! [quote]

I understand where you're coming from Kevin, I too have felt the frustrations caused by the Chinese system, mostly in my first year, far less now (into my second).

However, it does far more harm than good to complain about it when its clear that we are in a foreign country and must learn to adjust accordingly, even if it means compromising what we deem to be (in our homeland) professional ethics.

For example, the timetable changes. In my first year, I was intially taken aback by what I felt to be non-professional behaviour, but I soon learned my attitude towards it had to change, because I was the foreigner, with no concept of the Chinese way and no hope in hell of changing it.

As hard as it may have been, I learnt to accept and indeed expect it!

This saved me a lot of headache and as I stated earlier, I felt it was important to think of my students education. If I refused to go to a class because I felt annoyed by a timetable change, the students would be the most affected.

I am in no way justifying the erratic timetable change. I am, however, advocating a change of attitude, for yourself and Jeff.

In additon, to have expectations such as a holiday for Christmas (a Christian tradition, why on earth would China celebrate it?) or to complain about celebrating National Week, is absurd.

Perhaps, instead of complaining, you should embrace the idea of 'When in China, do as Chinese do". Otherwise, you'll be (and seem) awfully unhappy doing a job that gives you free accomodation, paid holidays and the opportunity to teach without a teaching degree.

If that proves too difficult, leave. There are always plenty of FT's willing to take your place.

[kev7161]

I'm sorry TW, but that's a BS response. Lack of courteous professionalism is just plain . . . wrong. So far I'm happy with my new school/position but if I feel I'm being treated unprofessionally, then I'm going to say something about and do my best to have this treatment changed.

If I can come into work every day on time, prepared to my fullest extent on giving good lessons, and letting my employers know should there be any problems, then my expectations on receiving advance notifications on scheduling is not too much to ask. Nothing personal against TW, but I grow weary of people "apologizing" for China and their 1950s way of doing things. China is plugged into the world now and they have been for quite awhile. Working in a professional capacity from both sides should be the rule, not the exception.

[kev7161]

[Starry Night]

Kevin,

Re: teaching degree, my mistake, I was probably thinking of my own situation and the other F.T's I work with. I am post Art degree, pre Teaching degree, though the only F.T in my town with a degree, so we are pretty lucky all round.

I'm curious though, what percentage of FT's in China do have a teaching degree, before China and after?

Something else, how much of your annoyance in regards to the erratic timetable/sick days has been exasperated by your teaching problems?This is something I also experience but I vent in other ways!

China can be a pressure cooker if we let it, but if you can 'play the game', that's great. Sometimes the inner frustrations vented on the page don't always match up with the actions taken, but its hard to know which ones!

Good luck.

[mmm... pancakes]

Kev, I know what you mean.

What I was trying to say earlier on was that although the school is at fault here, what Jeff has basically done here is push himself out of his job.

I think there's making a point and plain stubbornness. If I were in a similar position, I believe I'd kick up a fuss with the school's admin, but teach the classes (if I had nothing planned). In my (limited, I freely acknowledge) experience, a good scare is enough to change the behaviour of the admin, at least for a short time. While not being a pushover is all good and well, not being an ass about things is good too. Perhaps there's a middle ground we all should be striving for?

On a side note: Kev, I also teach young students, and I get sick once in a while. Not surprising when the kids pick their noses and then grab the teacher by the hand (remember GWOW's avatar??) and sneeze without covering their mouths. Why is it that when I call in sick they are so damned SHOCKED! "Oh my god! What are we gonna do???" There's no Plan B if a teacher is sick or stuck in traffic or dead. It seems to be an event that has never occurred to the admin. Perhaps the FIRST time a teacher called in sick they might act shocked, but after that, surely they'd work out what to do in the future?? Nooo, that would be too damn LOGICAL!! [/rant]

[bdawg]

[latefordinner]

This is one of the perennial questions, only it comes up more than once a year without replanting. What does a professional (teacher, doctor, engineer, nurse or other) do in an unprofessional situation? When the employer is so mind-numbingly unprofessional it makes you wonder why you even bother staying in the country? (In my own experience that's a fair description of most Chinese schools and businesses, but YMMV)

OK class, hands up, everyone who wants to come down hard on JinF? I see a lot of hands up. Now, who has offered an alternative approach, one that reconciles his concerns with the employer's? I don't see many hands, do I? Oh a few have a simple remedy; just do whatever you're told and smile through it all. This is China, you know. <sigh> Kevin, you got it right again.

Jeff must be a rich man to let 20,000 through his fingers on a scheduling dispute? Possibly, but then what price do you put on your own time, professionalism and character? If he's prepared to pack it in and leave over this, and if the school can't replace him, perhaps JinF's critics are missing the boat when they say that he's not ready for China. He can get by without them more easily than they can get by wothout him. The point is, the Chinese employers have to learn to adapt as well, and saying "This is the way it's done in China" just isn't a good enough excuse any more. It ranks right up there with "A dog ate my homework". Maybe it's time they realised that there's a price to be paid for poor management.

[Paul Barufaldi]

[jeffinflorida]

Topic update.

Many calls from FAO girl and former FAO (now teaching assistant) regarding this situation and 2 meetings.

I have let them know point blank that have lost much "face" with me. They are discusing my "fine" which was down to somewhere around 400rmb now - and I have told them a 1rmb fine is not acceptable.

I will teach today but we will have a meeting later in the day. They have not paid September salary yet so I "noticed" them that unless I receive my FULL September salary today then I will not teach tomorrow.

The teaching assistant said that maybe FAO girl's words were too "sharp" and she didn't mean I should leave. I replied that she speaks for the school and meant exactly what she said.

FAO girl's feet are to the fire. I am ready to move to a hotel and check the classified ads.

[yamahuh]

We have this argument all the time with our employer.
Her constant lack of planning and ability to notify us of schedule changes are becoming ridiculous to the point of being laughable..if they weren't such a pain in the ass. Consider this; two weeks ago I showed up for classes at one of the schools I teach at to be told that this week is exam week and there are no classes...
"I think maybe we forgot to tell you.." - You think?
The next day my boss tells me I've got three classes at a new school beginning at 8:00 am. The time when she told me was 4:30 pm...nice, thanks for all the advance warning.
Every time we say that the changes are not acceptable at such short notice because it prevents us from preparing properly we are met with a shrug and a laugh and the explanation that "It's the Chinese way of doing things.."
Perhaps it explains why after 5000 years of civilization they're still a developing nation.
Oh, and JeffinFlorida, we were informed - last minute of course - that we would be teaching on our usual days off to make up classes as well. Fortunately there were only a couple of classes and they didn't start until the afternoon, so not much of a problem.
I understand your position tho' ... the principle, the principle.
Not sure what I would have done in your shoes.

Good luck

[jeffinflorida]