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calsimsek
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 775
Location: Ist Turkey
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 Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:01 am Post subject: |
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O.k lets get back to facts again. The point Stan makes is a good on,during every euro down turn the euro trash have found someone from the 'other' to blame. At the moment Turkish owned run companies pay more in Tax than Turk take from both local and federal gov't. The local community is now not only standing on it's own feet, its also helping to pay for social support system that the germans and french are holding on to.
The second question, is in the next 10-15 years whose going to pay for this system. With nonstop drop in birth rate numbers. Old Euro land won't have anyone around to pay for all the fat self important Euro Trash thats won't die off.
If not Turkey then who. Euro Trash have lift off the backs of Asia, Afica and South America. If Turks have any luck the short sight and blind trash of Euro land will stop them joing and thus becoming the work horse of old dieing system that is the United E.U. |
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bron
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:19 am Post subject: |
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That's completely true. Europe is getting old and doddery. The population is aging and the birthrate is declining, and it won't be very many years before the biggest burden on the "German social system" by which I assume the social safety net is indicated, will be old Germans. Lots of them. Many more than are in the workforce. So if anything, Turkey in the EU could end up saving the "social system" rather than burdening it.
I tend to agree that Turkey might well have more to lose than to gain by joining the European club. They're in a unique strategic position, stuck between the Middle East, Caucasus, Meditarranean, Black Sea, the Balkans and the EU. They'd probably lose a lot of leverage and trust with their non-EU neighbours if they were to join. |
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-stan-
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 5
Location: Bavaria, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| bron wrote: |
That's completely true. Europe is getting old and doddery. The population is aging and the birthrate is declining, and it won't be very many years before the biggest burden on the "German social system" by which I assume the social safety net is indicated, will be old Germans. Lots of them. Many more than are in the workforce. So if anything, Turkey in the EU could end up saving the "social system" rather than burdening it.
I tend to agree that Turkey might well have more to lose than to gain by joining the European club. They're in a unique strategic position, stuck between the Middle East, Caucasus, Meditarranean, Black Sea, the Balkans and the EU. They'd probably lose a lot of leverage and trust with their non-EU neighbours if they were to join. |
Here are still many turkish ppl who are living an wealthfare. We have big problems NOW, i dont wanna know how it will be if turkey is a member of the eu. |
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tekirdag
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:58 am Post subject: |
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But what is the percentage of Turks on welfare compared to the percentage of other groups on welfare? What are the facts?
Last edited by tekirdag on Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tekirdag
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 505
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bron
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| -stan- wrote: |
| Here are still many turkish ppl who are living an wealthfare. We have big problems NOW, i dont wanna know how it will be if turkey is a member of the eu. |
That's funny, because that's completely the opposite of the stance you took at the beginning of this thread, when you said
| -stan- wrote: |
| I hope they'll never come to the EU. |
and
| -stan- wrote: |
| They will NEVER come to the EU, i hope ! |
followed by
| -stan- wrote: |
| And what will the other poor ppl do? They'll come to europe, especially to germany and use our social system. |
All of which seems to indicate that you were concerned about the results of Turkey joining the EU on Germany's social safety net. I am merely pointing out that your fears are ill-founded. And tekirdag seems even to have demonstrated that you are misguided to believe that Turkish people are abusing German benefits at the present time. |
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whynotme
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 728
Location: istanbul
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| tekirdag wrote: |
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Don't think of today's Turkey joining the EU. Joining is years in the future. Think of the next generation joining the EU- those like whynotme, those who like grunge music, those men with earrings...those who want change.
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meee likes listening to arabesc music especially Muslum Gurses and i hate men with earrings and i am very proud of my vest and moustache. Is EU too far from me? 
tekirdag, i hope you are not disappointed. |
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Baba Alex
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 2411
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Mark Loyd wrote: |
| . Of course Cihangir, Beyoglu and Suadiye are great for the ex pats . |
How convenient that my wife's mother had the foresight ten years ago to guess that her daughter would marry someone who would become an ex-pat!
| Mark Loyd wrote: |
| Of course you too will be accused of being 31 or Faustion or ekmekparasi in order to drive you off the forum but of course they all believe in democracy and free speech. How ironic that they are in Turkey. |
From this statement we must assume that you are either not in Turkey or do not believe in free speech.
But of course you are in Turkey, aren't you?
The idea that it is somehow 'ironic' to live in Turkey and believe in free-speech at the same time is such a bizarre one. What about all those who have been jailed and beaten for protesting about free speech, it a shame that they couldn't see the irony as they were being clobbered round the head by a brute 30 times their size.
The EU is a rotten institution, as is the Turkish government. There are plenty of human rights abuses in EU countries all the time. I don't see why anybody in this whole world shouldn't have the right to go to another�s country and live on their social benefit system, seriously. When the figures on Turks in Germany are compiled, they neglect to point out that many of these 'Turks' on the social were actually born in Germany. If you're born in the country than you have little choice when there is no work than to go on the social.
If Germany had been so bothered about Turks in their country then they should have invited them, should they?
So, there are place in Istanbul that are a bit rough eh? Not very European? Should they be more like the ghettos in Paris? The council estates in Britain where a 15-year-old girl is decapitated for her mobile phone? The old blocks of flats in Rome were dead bodies lie untouched for 4 days? The place in Italy and Ireland were young girls are forced to have the children of rapists because abortion is wrong? It's a rotten Europe, but I suppose it's still Europe, and we can't be messing with THAT identity, can we?
EU? FU more like.
Last edited by Baba Alex on Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tekirdag
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
meee likes listening to arabesc music especially Muslum Gurses and i hate men with earrings and i am very proud of my vest and moustache. Is EU too far from me?
tekirdag, i hope you are not disappointed. |
Ahhh yes. Perhaps I should have worded my sentence better, something like whynotme AND those who like grunge blah blah blah
You like arabesc music? ok....it's not my cup of tea, though. You don't like guys with earrings? I am surprised. And there's nothing wrong with a moustache. Many, many men have them in Canada.
I think I didn't make my point well. It has got nothing to do with likes and dislikes.
Perhaps this example will help- I worked in a private primary school last school year. In the English department there were several 50-something year old teachers and a couple of teachers in their twenties. The older teachers lied to the parents, were disorganised, didn't know good teaching techniques, and just drank a lot of tea. The younger teachers wanted to do their jobs well, worked hard, and were very open-minded. I would hate to see everyone in this country judged by those older teachers, for example.
The original poster seems to judge every Turk by a small part of the Turkish population in Germany.
Go ahead and grow a huge spiral moustache, whynotme. I shouldn't judge books by the covers, should I? And different doesn't mean wrong. |
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whynotme
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 728
Location: istanbul
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:04 am Post subject: |
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just kidding. i ve never grown moustache and dont like arabesc .
i really cant understand why the poster doesnt want Turkish people in E.U. Is it because the Turks are going to exploit the E.U travel all over Europe and get ur jobs? if it is so, i find it really funny and u dont have to worry at least there is one Turk here who is not intending it . |
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Baba Alex
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 2411
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| whynotme wrote: |
just kidding. i ve never grown moustache and dont like arabesc .
i really cant understand why the poster doesnt want Turkish people in E.U. Is it because the Turks are going to exploit the E.U travel all over Europe and get ur jobs? if it is so, i find it really funny and u dont have to worry at least there is one Turk here who is not intending it . |
Of course they don't want Turks travelling to Europe to get jobs. It's not like you get Europeans flocking to Turkey for work do you?
..
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errrrrrrrr  |
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whynotme
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 728
Location: istanbul
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Baba Alex wrote: |
| whynotme wrote: |
just kidding. i ve never grown moustache and dont like arabesc .
i really cant understand why the poster doesnt want Turkish people in E.U. Is it because the Turks are going to exploit the E.U travel all over Europe and get ur jobs? if it is so, i find it really funny and u dont have to worry at least there is one Turk here who is not intending it . |
Of course they don't want Turks travelling to Europe to get jobs. It's not like you get Europeans flocking to Turkey for work do you?
..
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errrrrrrrr |
yeah u are right we are Turks . we travel in millions and get other people's jobs. hey plumbers brick layers, pimps,engineers...etc. watch ur ar** ...we are coming to get ur jobs and steal ur money |
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molly farquharson
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 839
Location: istanbul
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:45 am Post subject: |
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I think the way Turks are viewed in Europe is like Mexicans are viewed in the US-- low wage workers that do the jobs that the "real" Americans/Europeans wouldn't be caught dead doing. They don't understand that there are lots of rich Mexicans/ Turks who wouldn't be caught dead living in the US/Europe. Americans had the same fear when NAFTA was enacted, but the result was that a lot of American companies pulled up stakes and moved to Mexicoto exploit the labour at its roots. Maybe the Europeans should be a little more afraid of that.
One of my fears is the EU bureacracy. A friend in Italy was beomaning the fact that her family's factory was buried in paperwork because of the EU. Plus in Italy they have to deal with strong unions.
There are lots of changes ahead, whether Turkey joins the EU or not. There have already b een a lot of changes, most for the better. Turkey is not only looking at the west, though-- there is a lot of Turkish investment in middle Asia and the far east.
At least it is not a stagnant situation. |
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Mark Loyd
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 517
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| That is Central Asia not ''middle Asia." |
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Mark Loyd
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 517
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Buried in paperwork. Well you will have to employ teachers illegally. Oh but you do that already. |
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