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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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 Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I would recomend avoiding this company entirely as you will only have lots and lots of difficulty. But I guess some people feel the need to be burned.
They are a recruiter so will be desperate for your business no matter what. Don't accept this contract clause. They will put up a fight but if you start to walk away then they will give in. Also try to be paid earlier than the 15th. Most schools pay on the 5th or the 10th. Tell them that you need to have at least 2 days off every week. And that you cannot do any of the extra unpaid work, like at Christmas. Also remember, that as you will have a salary, you will lose an entire month's salary if you work there for twelve months. There are usually 30 - 31 days in a month, not 28.
Actually, if you really, really, must.... sign a six month contract only. You will still regret it, and will probably even quit before your contract expires but you won't be burned so badly. |
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Supercords
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Utah for now
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Firstly, do they offer a visa for coming to look for work? To my knowledge they don't. |
That's correct, they don't.
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| Surely the purpose of a visitors visa is to enable you to come to Taiwan to visit, which is exactly what you are doing. If and when you find work then you apply for a resident visa and you are legally allowed to work in the interim. |
It's the length of the visitor's visa that is uncertain. The lady at the L.A. consulate was very suspicious the moment I said I was interested in getting a 2 month visitor's visa. She kept saying "What's the real reason you are going to Taiwan?" What she told me, and this could be false, is that there's no guarantee when you submit your paperwork for a visitor's visa that you will get one for 2 months. It could be less. But regardless, I'd have to already have purchased a round trip ticket to even qualify for that length of time. I prefer not to do that.
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| If you want to obtain a work permit and resident visa before you come then that is your right, but please don't suggest that those who come here first to check things out are being dishonest. I would think that they are being wise in fact. |
I agree, I think it would be wise to come over and check out the job situation in person first. I wanted to do that myself. I think you misunderstood me though. I said that the lady at the consulate told me that people were dishonest with her about their true intentions for coming to Taiwan. That they acquired 2 month visitor visas under the pretenses of "just visiting" and then returning before 2 months time. When in fact, they were there to find work and did not return in 2 months time. I got the implication that this is frowned upon by them, and they were being more strict now. If I could come over with a 2 month visitor's visa (without having to be misleading about my intentions to find work) and a one way ticket, we'd be in business. I don't believe I can.
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| I am assuming from the above that you are suggesting that if you arrive on a resident visa then you only need a one way ticket. According to the legislation that would be incorrect. So if your intention is to follow the legislation here to the word then you will really need to arrive here with an outbound ticket, regardless of your visa type. Considering that it would seem that one of your main motivations for obtaining a resident visa from overseas has now been dissolved. |
This is scary news if it is true, which it probably is, since you seem to know your stuff. If your saying it is still illegal to arrive without an outbound flight, even if you have a work visa in hand, then I may have to go the other route.
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| Why do you need a return ticket? There is no stipulation for a return ticket. There is a stipulation for an outbound ticket. If you are against getting an open one year return back home but still want to follow the regulations then why not just get an outbound ticket to Hong Kong or somewhere nearby.You can either use this for a holiday, or cash it in when you get here. |
I'm against getting an open ended ticket because of the high cost involved. I'll probably take your advice and get an outbound ticket to Hong Kong and then cash it in. I just wish they would make it easier and more official for people to come find work as teacher's without having to jump through hoops. There's obviously a huge need for it.
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Let me ask you, other than the above, what do you think are the benefits of signing a contract and obtaining a resident visa before you arrive? |
1. The security of having a job lined up.
2. Not having to hassle with visa transfers etc after you get there.
3. Having people available to help you find a place to live, and knowing already the general area you will be looking for housing. (near the school)
4. 2 less things to worry about after you get there. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| Supercords wrote: |
| It's the length of the visitor's visa that is uncertain. The lady at the L.A. consulate was very suspicious the moment I said I was interested in getting a 2 month visitor's visa. She kept saying "What's the real reason you are going to Taiwan?" What she told me, and this could be false, is that there's no guarantee when you submit your paperwork for a visitor's visa that you will get one for 2 months. It could be less. But regardless, I'd have to already have purchased a round trip ticket to even qualify for that length of time. I prefer not to do that. |
I believe that visa offices do a great disservice to their countries on many occasions. I understand that they want to apear to be vigilant, and that in some cases the staff may be on a power trip. What she says is technically correct as the visa office has the ultimate say, but in practice visa applications tend to go much more smoothly than you are led to believe that they will. At the end of the day the clerk that issues the visa has no way of knowing what your intentions are (unless you tell them) and in most cases they don't really care. The fact is that once you get here you are someone elses problem.
This is not a criticism of you as I know how daunting dealing with the visa office can be, but my advice is don't get to hung up on it. The less you say and the less you do the better. The government in Taiwan would not offer a 60 day visitors visa if no one could get one, and the fact is that the majority of people who come here on visitors visas would come on a 60 day.
Honestly the best course of action for visas in my opinion is to let your travel agent send the documents in for you. This reduces your application to a formality and overcomes the power trip factor I mentioned earlier. The worst thing that you can do is visit the offices yourself and start to give them more information than they need.
If your intentions were to come here and work illegally on a visitors visa, or to overstay your visa, then you are clearly in the wrong. If however your intentions are to come here and check out Taiwan prior to committing to a job then what exactly are you doing wrong? This is what you need to understand for yourself. You aren't doing anything wrong and you don't need to justify yourself to anyone. If you go in person for your visa then just give simple polite answersto their questions.
| Supercords wrote: |
| I said that the lady at the consulate told me that people were dishonest with her about their true intentions for coming to Taiwan. That they acquired 2 month visitor visas under the pretenses of "just visiting" and then returning before 2 months time. When in fact, they were there to find work and did not return in 2 months time. I got the implication that this is frowned upon by them, and they were being more strict now. If I could come over with a 2 month visitor's visa (without having to be misleading about my intentions to find work) and a one way ticket, we'd be in business. I don't believe I can. |
I totally agree with you on this, and this was the point for my earlier question about whether or not there is a visa for 'looking for work'. I agree that the majority of people would tick such a box if one existed but the fact is that it doesn't and is therefore not an option. If the government is so concerned about the process then they should include such a box, but in my opinion it is really of no relevance to them. Provided that you don't breach a visitors visa by working or overstaying then what do you have to hide - nothing.
Single foreigners arriving in Taiwan on a two month visitors visa carrying far more luggage than any one person would need for two months is a daily occurence in Taiwan. Everybody knows it, and as long as the government fails to give us the appropriate box to tick we will be forced to tick the next most appropriate box, and that is visitor for the purposes of travel. You are afterall a visitor who is travelling here until such a time as you get a job and rent a house.
| Supercords wrote: |
| If your saying it is still illegal to arrive without an outbound flight, even if you have a work visa in hand, then I may have to go the other route. |
Yes I am sure that there is no legal differentation between visa types as far as the outbound ticket rules are concerned. There is generally no problem at immigration in Taiwan, most people encounter problems at check in back home as the airline is responsible for ensuring that you meet the entry requirements to Taiwan. The problem is that often the airlines have their own regulations about carriage and it can be difficult to prove to the clerk or supervisor that you should be treated any differently just because you have a work visa. They don't know any more about the validity of such visas than you do, and while I am sure that sometimes you could get through by showing a resident visa, there is no guarantee.
| Supercords wrote: |
| I'm against getting an open ended ticket because of the high cost involved. I'll probably take your advice and get an outbound ticket to Hong Kong and then cash it in. I just wish they would make it easier and more official for people to come find work as teacher's without having to jump through hoops. There's obviously a huge need for it. |
Personally I think that the requirement of proof of an outbound ticket is a pretty reasonable request of any country for foreign residents entering that country. The alternative is a pretty scary thought.
Your reasons for wanting a job lined up before you come are pretty reasonable. However....
| Supercords wrote: |
| 1. The security of having a job lined up. |
In my mind this is often a false sense of security. Once you arrive the school is going to re-evaluate whether or not they really want you, just as any business would when hiring a new employee. Particularly so with schools as the foreign teacher really can make a difference to the profitability of the school.
It is true that a school would be less likely to give you the boot if they had already arranged all the visas and stuff for you, but it is still a possibility and legally I doubt that you would have very little legal recourse over them if they did renig.
Finally, I doubt that you will find any reputable school (or any school for that matter) who will process the visa without having first met you.The problem for you is that there are so many people already here who the school can meet face to face, that even if you appear to be the best applicant, the school would almost certainly go with someone already here if given the choice as the person here is a known commodity whereas you are relatively unknown.
Then there is the concern that any school that is willing to process you from overseas may be so desperate for a teacher that they are willing to do this. You would then have to ask yourself why they are so desperate.
If you are adamant that this is the way that you want to go then I would recommend speaking with Hess. They have representatives (ex-teachers) overseas who can help them determine that you are a good prospect first which enables them to employ you and give you a job guarantee with some certainty.
| Supercords wrote: |
| 2. Not having to hassle with visa transfers etc after you get there. |
As most people do it here, you will find that the process is pretty clear and easy. Much of it is done in English and as the clerks deal with it on a daily basis they are generally pretty routine about it.
As strange as it may seem you are more likely to run into administrative problems trying to do it overseas as the clerks are less likely to understand the practice as well as their counterparts here do.
| Supercords wrote: |
| 3. Having people available to help you find a place to live, and knowing already the general area you will be looking for housing. (near the school) |
Agreed. This is one of several advantages, but I am not sure that the advantages outweigh the risks. |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:58 am Post subject: |
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If you had interviewed directly with a chain school then they may have helped organise the visa for you overseas. Recruiters cannot issue you any type of visa, so you will have all the regular visa hassles anyway. It's not so bad and the school usually helps you with this. A lot of the other benefits you will get, like accomodation and ARC, have nothing to do with the recruiter at all but the school.
You will be sent to a small town miles from anywhere. You will be the only foreigner. Do you know any mandarin? I would recommend sticking to a bigger city like Taipei if you are travelling alone for your first time. |
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argonfly707
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 46
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:29 am Post subject: |
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It seems as though all the people I am talking to say I need to get a 60 day visitor visa and then go to Taiwan and my ARC and work visa will be set up. I am wondering how long the 60 day visa takes to get and if I should get an extendable one.
Thanks,
Argon |
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argonfly707
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 46
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
I just called the Vancouver Taiwan office and she told me that I could not go to Taiwan on a visitor visa and then get a job. I would have to go there find a job and leave the country to get a work permit. She said I was told outdated information. Is this true or will I be fine on a visitor visa and then once I find the job I will transfer to a work visa without leaving the country. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| argonfly707 wrote: |
| I just called the Vancouver Taiwan office and she told me that I could not go to Taiwan on a visitor visa and then get a job. I would have to go there find a job and leave the country to get a work permit. She said I was told outdated information. Is this true or will I be fine on a visitor visa and then once I find the job I will transfer to a work visa without leaving the country. |
Your mistake was letting her know that you were coming here to get a job. It is not the purpose of the visitors visa to do this, and therefore if you tell them this they will not be able to issue you with a visitors visa. You will not get a visa to come here to look for work as one does not exist.
You don't need to lie to the visa office, you just need to tell them that you are coming to Taiwan as a visitor and to check it out. If you happen to decide to find work here then you can apply for a resident visa once you are here.
I know that it sounds strange but it has been said many times before:
Don't ask the TECO office in your country questions about what goes on here in Taiwan, as they really don't seem to know.
I think that it is ridiculous that they don't know, and I cannot explain why they don't know, but the amount of misinformation that they spread is really quite amazing.
This comes from the visa processing bureau here in Taiwan (BOCA) and I lifted from here:
| Quote: |
If foreign nationals who have entered the ROC with Visitor Visas are subsequently legally employed in the ROC, they may make the necessary change from their Visitor Visa into a Resident Visa in this country directly.
The above regulations do not apply to blue collar workers or those who enter the ROC via the visa exemption program. |
The second paragraph refers to foreigners who arrive on landing visas as these are not extendable nor transferrable.
Most importantly is the fact that the written procedures are also verifiable in practice, in that most foreigners who are working here have done exactly this. The woman you spoke to is clearly wrong and there are thousands of foreigeners living and working here that can attest to that. |
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Supercords
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Utah for now
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| Honestly the best course of action for visas in my opinion is to let your travel agent send the documents in for you. This reduces your application to a formality and overcomes the power trip factor I mentioned earlier. The worst thing that you can do is visit the offices yourself and start to give them more information than they need. |
I've heard this same advice from others, and I think you all have a point. I may have to let my $445 one way reserved flight on Singapore Air slip away and book something through a travel agent that continues on to Hong Kong as previously recommended.
| Quote: |
| Finally, I doubt that you will find any reputable school (or any school for that matter) who will process the visa without having first met you. |
I guess I assumed otherwise incorrectly. For the same reasons I would like to check out the school, students, and curriculum, they want to check me out.
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| As strange as it may seem you are more likely to run into administrative problems trying to do it overseas as the clerks are less likely to understand the practice as well as their counterparts here do. |
This makes sense.
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| Agreed. This is one of several advantages, but I am not sure that the advantages outweigh the risks. |
So my next question would be: Assuming I arrive with a limited budget, as most prospective English teachers do, and I don't want to risk staying at a hostel where everything I own can be ripped off in a moment, where does one stay while finding a job and an apartment?
I don't want to rent a place until after I find a job, because I want to live close to work. That may take a couple weeks. Hotels/motels could get expensive. What are my options?
And please, no angry posts about the honesty of people at hostels. I already know. I've stayed at hostels all over the world and never had a thing stolen from me. Does that mean I want to roll the dice with a years worth of luggage? No. |
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Supercords
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Utah for now
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| clark.w.griswald wrote: |
| argonfly707 wrote: |
| I just called the Vancouver Taiwan office and she told me that I could not go to Taiwan on a visitor visa and then get a job. I would have to go there find a job and leave the country to get a work permit. She said I was told outdated information. Is this true or will I be fine on a visitor visa and then once I find the job I will transfer to a work visa without leaving the country. |
Your mistake was letting her know that you were coming here to get a job. It is not the purpose of the visitors visa to do this, and therefore if you tell them this they will not be able to issue you with a visitors visa. You will not get a visa to come here to look for work as one does not exist.
You don't need to lie to the visa office, you just need to tell them that you are coming to Taiwan as a visitor and to check it out. If you happen to decide to find work here then you can apply for a resident visa once you are here.
I know that it sounds strange but it has been said many times before:
Don't ask the TECO office in your country questions about what goes on here in Taiwan, as they really don't seem to know.
I think that it is ridiculous that they don't know, and I cannot explain why they don't know, but the amount of misinformation that they spread is really quite amazing.
This comes from the visa processing bureau here in Taiwan (BOCA) and I lifted from here:
| Quote: |
If foreign nationals who have entered the ROC with Visitor Visas are subsequently legally employed in the ROC, they may make the necessary change from their Visitor Visa into a Resident Visa in this country directly.
The above regulations do not apply to blue collar workers or those who enter the ROC via the visa exemption program. |
The second paragraph refers to foreigners who arrive on landing visas as these are not extendable nor transferrable.
Most importantly is the fact that the written procedures are also verifiable in practice, in that most foreigners who are working here have done exactly this. The woman you spoke to is clearly wrong and there are thousands of foreigeners living and working here that can attest to that. |
I wish this reply was posted everywhere across the net. It's hard enough to prepare to leave your home country to work abroad without being given misinformation from those who are supposed to be "official." Thank you for laying it all out so clearly. Now to find a cheap travel agency to hook me up with plane tickets and a visitor's visa. I'll be reporting back on my progress. |
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:23 am Post subject: |
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To answer your "where do people stay" question, the answer is hostels. You are right, hotel rooms get expensive. at minmially 800NT per night I'd guess , that would add up to your rent and deposit or almost.
That's why agents can be seen as positive forces. They offer the "soft landing", which is really valuable in that you are delivered to a company dorm, where, more than likely, are waiting 1-3 other foreigners that have been in the country for a week or two. These guys will no doubt share the benefit of their combined month of wisdom with you and get you off on your experience.
But you run the same chance of getting your stuff ripped off at a company dorm. These are transient places, and everyone that has stayed in one I am sure has a story about a "colorful' roomie. I know everyone I lived with does. 
Likewise, everything I've bought for my apartment in the last 4 years could be ripped off. There is crime everywhere.
Have you no friends here? That would be the best option. Someone settled enough to show you the ropes, put you up for a few weeks, maybe teach you some chinese?
That would work. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Supercords wrote: |
So my next question would be: Assuming I arrive with a limited budget, as most prospective English teachers do, and I don't want to risk staying at a hostel where everything I own can be ripped off in a moment, where does one stay while finding a job and an apartment?
I don't want to rent a place until after I find a job, because I want to live close to work. That may take a couple weeks. Hotels/motels could get expensive. What are my options? |
One possibility is to take advantage of any offering for airport pickup and initial accomodation with your school or recruiter of choice, but make it clear to them upfront that you are not willing to committ until you get here. Ask them what would be the cost to you if you took advantage of their services upfront but then chose to work elsewhere. If it works out then you may find that you can pay them for this help if you choose not to go through them after you arrive. But please do pay them for this as it is a cost to them and it is not unheard of for some foreigners to do runners which is bad for all of us.
Other than that, maybe a private room in a hostel or long term rates at a hotel. It is a difficult situation and no matter what you choose, your first few weeks here are likely to be your most expensive until you are able to settle in.
Also, you might be able to arrange a room in shared accomodation with other foreigeners short term, or you could rent a 'taofang' which is a fully furnished, self contained, one room apartment and they rent for around NTD10,000 per month. They are normally six to twelve month rentals but you may be able to negotiate a shorter term. |
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Ki
Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 475
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| I'd opt for the hostel. Airport pickup is a minimal benefit as it is only about $100 NT for the bus. Taipei Hostel has free lockers (small returnable deposit) for you to use. These lockers are certainly big enough to store your year's worth of luggage. You will also meet a few other teachers here who have months worth of experience and can lead you in the right directions. They have noticeboards there and you are sometimes able to get leads directly to job offers known through the other teachers. |
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Supercords
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Utah for now
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Pop Fly wrote: |
| Have you no friends here? That would be the best option. Someone settled enough to show you the ropes, put you up for a few weeks, maybe teach you some chinese? |
Not at the moment, but as my trip looms closer, I will start checking out some of the English Exchange boards and such. I'm a nice enough guy. I should be able to put something together. Thanks for the advice. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Also, you might be able to arrange a room in shared accomodation with other foreigeners short term, or you could rent a 'taofang' which is a fully furnished, self contained, one room apartment and they rent for around NTD10,000 per month. They are normally six to twelve month rentals but you may be able to negotiate a shorter term. |
Or try to make some Taiwanese friends before you go. I am lucky that a friend of mine works in Taipei and I will stay with him until I find a job. |
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