Job Discussion Forums

[wobbles]

I've only started teaching in China, having taken a break from the world of TEFL to teach in a mainstream school in my home country, and I've already noticed the poor abilities and resources from which my Chinese colleagues are working. I asked two of these teachers after a morning of observing them before throwing myself into the teaching equation again and they were open enough to tell me of these poor conditions from which they worked. To be honest I was appalled but the student-first attitude does not surprise me as I have found it to be the case in every school I've worked in including the mainstream high school in my own country. What amazes me about my colleagues is their eagerness to learn from me and my experiences and their ability to put on a smile when they come face to face with the fifty brats they teach... I say brats in the most affectionate manner of course, they're not all bad. So these wonderful Chinese teachers along with all the teachers I've worked with receive my praise for working in the education system they do. At the end of the day, no matter what the country is the sytem is flawed and it's the teachers that suffer as well as the students. So much so, that I am leaving it next year. There's my rant of the day.

[benno]

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

Edited to remove offensive content.

Middy

[bjwellgo8]

Chinese teachers are surely at the bottom of the power structure in the school. The teachers of one of my former employers got up at 5:30 am and went to bed after 11 pm. The students got up at 6 and went to bed before 11. And teachers from all over China struggled to enter into it because the school provides free housing, 1500 kuai a month (more for head teachers) and cheap food.

[Holyrain]

I just want to throw in here not all chinese english teachers are 'poor' and can't make money. There are great opportunities for even chinese english teachers. When i met my gf in Wuhan, she was making 4000rmb a month, working about 15 actual class hours, but she did have to sit in the office for another 9 hours a week (although we often snuck out and the school turned a blind eye). Anyways, now she works in Beijing and gets paid a standard 200 rmb for each 1.5 hour class she teaches. That's more than most foreign teachers make. There are positions in her school that pay 10-25K a month if you get into teacher training, TOEFL prep etc. As for my gf, she just did a bachelor at some mid level university. No masters, and she has been a teacher for only 3 years (mostly p/t). So sometimes I think the person herself has a large impact on the outcome of her 'work', and is not just a slave to the system.

[Super Mario]

I agree with most of Middy's excellent post, except to comment that "teacher" is too broad a brush to characterise a whole profession.
At the extremities, I worked with young [female and lovely] kindergarten teachers, helping them rehearse their "English" play: God knows why they decided to do this BTW. They only survived financially because they still lived at home. Their main goal in life was to find a rich boyfriend. At the other end, one colleague was a moonlighter. His job as a Professor of Linguistics [Ph.D UCLA] didn't pay enough, but he had so much free time he worked extra jobs and made 10000 pm.
As an observation, after 30 years teaching in 3 continents, ALL teachers believe they work too hard and that the conditions are poor.
Well, with one exception. I never found the work hard in China. Some classes were excruciatingly tedious, but that's as bad as it got.

[clarrie]

Chinese teachers:

- put in incredibly long hours and usually work six days a week

There seems to be some confusion here between long hours AT school and long hours WORKING! What are long working/teaching hours, 6, 8, 10, 12 hours?

- must stay at the school even after their daily teaching duties are done


Hence the question above. But where else would they read the newspapers?


- receive a very low wage (1,500 - 3,000 rmb/mo.)

Is that for life? There's a cerain degree of job security with this. What about other perks?

- have no representative professional association



WHo does in China? Do they really want one anyway?


- have no collective agreements



Not true. All collectively agree that they will do their work!



- have no disciplinary measures available to them


They often have access to parents, but then again that's usually used to give praise. Why would they want to discipline anyway, that would suggest they are a bad teacher.



- are at the bottom of the school totem pole (below the headmaster, admin, students, and parents)




Such is the system. Who isn't in a school anywhere when commercialisation of education is concerned and you are keeping the clients happy?



- must teach to the exam ( all else is secondary)




Yeah, so what, that's what they feel most comfortable with and that is what is expected. 'The' exam will be the deciding factor for ... something, so where will that leave the students if the requirements aren't met?



- must use out-dated and often inaccurate texts and materials



But if it matches the point above, what's the big deal.


- are responsible for students 24/7 on campus or off



You must be out in the sticks somewhere!! Only to bolster their own standing.



- are often reprimanded by their headmaster for using 'questionable' or 'frivolous' methods such as presentations, role plays, songs, or games or if their classes are 'noisy'




Exactly, because you don't need those to teach to 'the' exam!


- have no access to academic or social support staff (i.e. school counsellors)



Who does in any job in China?




- have very limited resources and equipment




They have a text book and most prefer chalk-'n'-talk which ensures total control.



- have never themselves had the benefit of a native English-speaking teacher to model pronunciation


Probably would have done the same sorts of things most of the students do in classes now with a foreign teacher up the front. What's the easiest way to get silence in a speaking class? Ask the students to speak.


- have almost no opportunities for upgrading and Pro D



Upgrading to what? "Pro D"? Probably treat that as another intrusion into their hectic routine. Like (many?) western countries, where does a classroom practicioner go other than on to the next class?




- truly care about their charges' well-being and future



Haa ha ha ha!!!!! Only insofar as there is likely to be something in it for them!!




- do not have a classrom of their own, forcing them to be 'visitors' in their students' classrooms and making it impossible for them to create a suitable learning environment with charts, posters, books, etc.



That's very western of you. Whose idea of 'suitable' is this, yours or the students'?




- have to eat school food




They need their daily intake of burnt oil and garlic (northern China) and MSG and as long as there is some rice, they tend to be happy. It's cheap!!!



- are bound by a system they are powerless to change, even though they would all love to see reform




Really, "all"?! Reform to what? MAny I have spoken to are happy with the current sytem and make money at night and on the weekends charging individual students for a repitition of the same stuff they delivered in class all day! They perpetuate the system!




- work in poorly-lit, unheated classrooms with furniture that is often bolted to the floor and toxic to boot


Such is their lot and indeed if you are in southern China, the idea of actually heating a classroom so the air would be unhealthy would just be totally unacceptable! Are you talking about your own expectations of comfort here?


Toxic?! There are certain scales of relativity here.




So, they are overworked and underpaid. They have an immense amount of responsibility and no power. They will teach for 20-30 years and have little to retire on. They live the life and do the job every day, and then have to listen to some recent foreign grad, aged 25 and making five times their salary, complain about the Chinese teachers' poor English and methods. Before you start looking down your nose at your Chinese colleagues, you'd better realize that you could probably never operate under these conditions long-term and grow a sympathy gland.

[Roger]

Carrie,some of your points are taken, but the vast rest deserves no consideration other than throwing them in the wind - or the rubbish bin, as the case were! I don't understand why on Earth anyone could be so cynical as to dismiss the entire Chinese teaching profession in those terms of yours!

There are Chinese that work for 350 yuan a month plus food and housing. And they are refuysed pay because their employer is defaulting - that is, their home village cannot pay!

And yes, these teachers often look after the kids under their wings 24/7.

Those who work in urban places are a minority, and even they don't get treated perfectly well!

In contrast to how FTs get treated this is a real shame!

They don't know better so they cannot make an informed decision as to where they want to work, or what working conditions to ask for. Unlike you!

[vikdk]

a Roger quote on Chinese teachers

[anthyp]

Well I have a lot of respect for my hapless Chinese colleagues.

The simple fact is they have it a lot worse than we do. To put it succinctly, our job is much easier and our pay much higher. Somebody mentioned that there are other jobs out there, but you guys obviously don't know the Chinese job market. There are NO jobs and our colleagues probably feel grateful for what they have. It's not just a case of doing something else, most Chinese people are trapped in a way you could never imagine being, so show some sense already. Being a teacher here is a respectable, worthy job, but it's thankless as hell and our lording it over them doesn't help any.

Think about it this way: how would you feel about monolingual immigrants invading your country and doing the same job you do, perhaps a bit more successfully (let's not kid ourselves), while enjoying perks you could never dream of? And we are not talking about highly qualified individuals, either, but all manner of bums: kids, backpackers, and so on. I honestly think the only thing you can do when confronted with such a grossly unfair situation is refuse to play any part of it ... which is one reason why I'll be returning home shortly in the summer.

Enjoy it while you can, I plan on being long gone by the time the situation is finally rectified and our colleagues enjoy the same working conditions we do (or we enjoy theirs, more likely).

[tofuman]

Jenner, in a shorter work on China, The Tyranny of History, mentions that, at least until the early nineties, some employees were subject to "reeducation" if they proved recalcitrant or unable to function effectively in their posts.

The "reeducation" system, from what I gather, is an off the radar system of work camps where difficult individuals have an opportunity to improve their attitudes. One can or could be sent there based upon administrative decision rather than judicial.

If there is, indeed, a gulag like this, who better to reeducate than "teachers" who buck the system?

[bdawg]

[KES]

Every cloud has a silver lining.

Fortunately for the Chinese teachers, they get to teach Chinese students. For those of you unaware, they are the cleverest, most diligent and best behaved students in the world.

[cj750]

standard wage at a fast food place is arond 4rmb..and most are part time positions...with managers making ten....

I too know chnese teachers making 5000RMB..at schools that are associated with sister schools in the west..unlikely a public school would pay this amount..but they do give most (by law I suspect) insure their teachers and pay into a retirement fund..also some school will offer plans to assist with buy autos or housing...Geely University in Chongping is one such Uni...helpin Chinese (not foreigners) teachers of a certain length of service with a new car purchase....but then a gain the more recent hires..have not been given this lucrative of an arrangement (and what I can see of there work they may be overpaid) but like it or not this is the market place ..with this example of necessary addition of foreigners to remain marketable...the Chinese can never offer that...and the higher paying j-o-b always go to the highest qualified people...even if that qualification is only being white and speaking English...