Job Discussion Forums

[crumpy]

Selin hasn't been "scared off" ... no, she'll be checking back every other hour to see what our "disgruntled and pitiful individual" has to say for himself ... we should be thanking Mark for spicing up the forum and attracting new people :-))

[Mark Loyd]

Agreed

[coffeespoonman]

Admin - can we do something about Mark Lloyd? I mean, at least 31 had a sense of humor...

[Mark Loyd]

More praise for 31

[ghost]

Mark has a point that TEFL is one of the few areas where people with little or no skills, besides being 'native speakers,' can pick up work in the so called 'teaching profession.'

While it is true that some native speakers, with little or no specific training, can be effective in the classroom - with students learning, in many cases this is not the case.

And Mark also has a point, that most of the one month "Certificate Courses" in TEFL are basically of little worth.

Reality check.

Ghost presently teaches at a High School in Taiwan, where all the teachers have undergone formal teacher training and all have Bachelor of Educations or mininum of One Year full time PGCE. And believe me, the difference between these 'teachers' and some of the 'yahoos' one saw in Turkey is enormous.

Ghost in Taichung, Taiwan

[tekirdag]

While working in South Korea a few years back I helped the owner of my school to recruit a new teacher. I pushed for a woman for Canada who had a degree in primary education. The owner agreed she was a good choice. I mentioned the choice to another teacher who asked why she was not working in Canada. He was hinting there must be something wrong with her.

There is a tendancy to blame teachers for not being qualified enough. But the problem is that the jobs offered are rarely choice jobs. A highly qualified individual would never give up the security of Canada, the good salary and social benefits for 1,800 ytl (a month, paid late) and a rundown apartment in Istanbul(plus all the stress of being a foreigner).

Who, with their head screwed on straight, would study English grammar and teaching techniques for years to get a job from which they can hardly pay the bills, where they can't speak the local language and don't know anyone, aren't even picked up at the airport, and they worry about pervs and earthquakes?

Let's be realistic.

Even in universities, how many teachers making ok money(2500+ytl plus bennies) do you know? I know only one and I have met A LOT of teachers. Would a language course in Istanbul ever pay enough money to lure highly qualified people from their home countires? I don't think so. Not in this economy.

It seems to me these schools get what they pay for. Sure, they'd be happy to have a super teacher but they would pay only a few kuruş more for the privilege. These schools only think about profit margins. Why would well qualified teachers come here for these crappy jobs?

Your thoughts?

Chicken or egg?

[NMB]

Mark Loyd is so obviously 31 -- Regardless of what username we use, can't the administrator track the address on our computer?? (He can't possibly be posting so much from public computers.)

He, like anyone else, is entitled to his input. However, no one should be allowed to post such blatantly condescending and rude comments.

[Mark Loyd]

[selin555]

[Mark Loyd]

But Selin there is no work for you and your boyfriend in the summer apart from the possibility of a few summer camps and then only for a few weeks and for grocery money.

[turkophile]

Selin

Don't let certain characters prevent you from using this forum. Gathering information and using your own common sense about the source is something you need to do.

Myself, I just pop in from time to time, and basically read some stuff and in the process, figure out who has any degree of credibility in here. Regardless of whether or not you occasionally make good points, if the remaining 90% is crass condescension with a marked display of hostility towards a single institution, I am not going to take you seriously nor levy any credibility your way.

I can give you my opinion as to whom I believe is credible, but such a ranking here is likely to result in an all-out, gloves down, b*tch-slapping contest. Which will get the post locked, then discarded. Thus, it's possible it has actually been done before. Who knows?

Welcome to TEFL.

[Mark Loyd]

Agreed

[Cynthia Tax]

Hi Selin and Mark,

My intention here is not to hurt but to educate.

I am a newbie concerning Turkey myself, so I'm sorry I can't answer Selin's questions. However, I would like to point out that we are English teachers and should use proper English always, not just to pass tests.

In my experience, I have found that 'graduate university' is perfectly acceptable in many parts of the USA and is becoming more common in other English speaking countries as well, although, I still prefer the addition of 'from'.

I am more concerned with 'is not done university'. Although many people use 'done' and 'finished' interchangeably, the two words still have different meanings, and I consider the use of 'done', in place of 'finished', to be substandard. Selin's use of 'done' in this case is a good example of why I feel that way. His sentence leads to ambiguity. It could mean, 'She has not done her degree (yet)' or 'She is not finished her degree.'

Selin, I'm pretty sure most native speakers would guess, and be correct, that you meant 'finished'. But think about how a sentence like that affects students.

The worst example of English usage in this exchange, however, is Mark's convoluted syntax, "Both of you have almost no chance...". Since he means to follow the subject with a negative, it should read, 'Neither of you has much chance...".

Finally, in my opinion, typos are no big deal in chat rooms, just as all the little slips of the tounge are acceptable in speech.

I hope this helps you both in your teaching.

[Cynthia Tax]

Many, many of the English teachers I met in Taiwan had never graduated from university or studied TESL. It is more than easy to get hired by presenting fraudulent photocopies of degrees and certificates.

[turkophile]

Cynthia - It is rather presumptuous of you to jump into a new forum with the sole intent of showing off your considerable grammer and punctuation skills. Although you must have great fun pointing out errors in foreign menus and signs, you need to chill out.

TEFL, as you are bound to discover, is populated by a unique group of individuals with varying degrees of skill levels. TEFL teachers, you may argue, ought to be keenly aware of how they present themselves, in the classroom or on an internet forum... Such innocence. You can't be older than 22.

For that matter, keeping in line with your 'profession' dictating how you act in life, off-duty police officers must never drive even a kilometre over the limit. Nurses must sterilize everything in their homes. Porn actors must listen to cheesy music all of the time...

I've already talked about credibility on this site. Your post would indicate that one who teachers/instructs the English language should maintain a level of professionalism outside of the classroom. When representing your school, absolutely. (ARGH - a sentence fragment. Call the language cops!) Not here. I've seen the best slip up.

Criticizing grammar on an ESL forum. Nice way to introduce yourself.