| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
millie
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 413
Location: HK
|
 Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:01 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Roger wrote: |
This is plain bad-mouthing, a specimen of the genre "disinformatsiya'. China is a developing nation but it pays its foreign guestworkers relatively decent wages, full stop.
As for the buying power of a Chinese salary: by Chinese standards you are in a cushy position, approximately middle class, with all your basic needs taken care of by your employer: you won't pay for your housing. |
US$550 per month is a decent wage 
Fair suck of the sauce bottle! You might believe it but few other westerners do.
Any FT that works in China knows that this is survival and very little more.
Let�s not pretend otherwise.
And that�s OK to to work for this amount if it suits your situation but �decent? � that�s a terrible misuse of the word!
Oh, I see a relatively decent wage...
like compared to Chinese farmers and factory workers and people who live under bridges 
Oh, yeh � that sort of decent wage.
I should wash my mouth out for my blasphemy 
And the middle class in China own houses, Roger. Try buying a house today on $4-5K a month if you actually want to aspire to this lifestyle you desribe as:
| Quote: |
| cushy position, approximately middle class |
The appalling pay for educators elsewhere in the world does not change the reality of what you buy into accepting one of these jobs.
As another point of comparison, unemployment benefits in Australia pay more.
The fact is what ever you might save in 10 months of pay will evaporate very quickly once you leave China.
| Quote: |
| This is plain bad-mouthing.. |
Off to wash my mouth out with soap and water right now.
M |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ebolayatollah
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 95
Location: Shanghai Soon
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| millie wrote: |
| Roger wrote: |
This is plain bad-mouthing, a specimen of the genre "disinformatsiya'. China is a developing nation but it pays its foreign guestworkers relatively decent wages, full stop.
As for the buying power of a Chinese salary: by Chinese standards you are in a cushy position, approximately middle class, with all your basic needs taken care of by your employer: you won't pay for your housing. |
US$550 per month is a decent wage
Fair suck of the sauce bottle! You might believe it but few other westerners do.
Any FT that works in China knows that this is survival and very little more.
Let�s not pretend otherwise.
And that�s OK to to work for this amount if it suits your situation but �decent? � that�s a terrible misuse of the word!
Oh, I see a relatively decent wage...
like compared to Chinese farmers and factory workers and people who live under bridges
Oh, yeh � that sort of decent wage.
I should wash my mouth out for my blasphemy
And the middle class in China own houses, Roger. Try buying a house today on $4-5K a month if you actually want to aspire to this lifestyle you desribe as:
| Quote: |
| cushy position, approximately middle class |
The appalling pay for educators elsewhere in the world does not change the reality of what you buy into accepting one of these jobs.
As another point of comparison, unemployment benefits in Australia pay more.
The fact is what ever you might save in 10 months of pay will evaporate very quickly once you leave China.
| Quote: |
| This is plain bad-mouthing.. |
Off to wash my mouth out with soap and water right now.
M |
Say what? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
Also remember that wages - at least in Europe - include pension and health scheme contributions (and other stuff) - the invisible benefits that from which our granny states build that nice cozy safety net. In China it is a survival - beer/cheers/travel - wage. Last night I sorted out a decent pension/medical scheme - to make that work here you are paying at least 1,500/month (depending on age of course - but then I'm an old codger) - a few beers there! And shiiiite if I get kids � wow that gonna cost even more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Compared with the majority of overseas workers in other professions, most of us earn a pittance, only exceeding the levels earned by maids and nannies. And of the others here on contract, most have packages that also include the invisible stuff. By the way, some of the medical insurance offered by teaching companies is farcical.
The problem is that there are just far too many of us here - yes I know some have argued that we get higher wages than the locals because we are too few - but in reality compared with other foreigner/profession ratios when it comes to FT's - there's so many of us that they can get away with paying us shiiite.
All in all this make for a difficult situation for those who want to live here long term - but the money is there for the qualified who can give a high quality professional service - so say no to bad wages, which should be anything under 100/hour - otherwise you are encouraging roger like piety, which maybe ok for the monks among you, but certainly aint anything for me |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| as a postnote to my last post - I in no way want to atack FT's working in poor rural areas, or poor city schools - that kind of work is something very differnt to the language mills and mainstream TESOL industry - I apologise if I have offended any of you guys |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
millie
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 413
Location: HK
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vikdk wrote: |
| I in no way want to atack FT's working in poor rural areas, or poor city schools |
I certainly agree with that.
People may choose to work for such pay for a year to gain teaching experience, to see (a small part of) China or any number of other worthwhile reasons.
Sincerely, good luck but you should not be misled by comments that suggest you are on anything but survival rates.
However, you also need to be aware that many private (government) institutions actually have higher fee-paying courses which net the school -and its higher administration  more money. The line between private and public becomes rather blurred in this new $$ orientated economy. The FT is an essential drawcard in this kind of situation.
As a further point, a couple of years ago there seemed to be a nationwide move to pay for only 10 or 11 months of the year; whereas previously FT got 12 months pay plus quite often an extra holiday allowance (as local teachers do.)
So while the Chinese economy surges ahead and some locals are doing very very well thank you, FT are being paid less in many circumstances.
Now that is not very decent, is it? 
M |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
anthyp
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 1320
Location: Chicago, IL USA
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Are you guys whining about salaries in China again?
I don't know where to begin with all of the misleading information: somebody complained about a "nationwide" conspiracy to offer only 10 months of pay "a couple of years ago" (they must have forgotten to inform the authorities in Jiangxi) ... somebody else is going on about how gosh-darn difficult it is to plan for his retirement on a TEFL salary in China, what with all of the medical expenses and the dentures and you know, at least in Europe you've got your pension.
So go the hell back to Europe! I'm sure you would be much happier there ... going door-to-door begging for scraps of work, clearing 250 Euros a month. You know in Europe you will probably be working split shifts and you can forget about airfare. Sounds great! Where do I sign up?
Listen, nobody has said that working in China is going to make you rich. But the salary is adequate by TEFL international standards and excellent by local ones ... is that so hard to get? You are not "surviving" here or "just scraping by." Not when you make more than 4X the salary of other teachers and professors.
You complain about millions getting rich here while poor TEFLers starve ... boo hoo! Here's a reality check: these people are actually doing something, hustling, making business. You are doing nothing. You think you are entitled to a car and house for "teaching" Oral English 15 hours a week? Get real! Any monkey can teach English so please stop building yourself up to be this all-important member of society.
Now excuse me, I have to get back to rummaging in the trash bin for food, you know it's a survival here just to get by. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:20 am Post subject: ....... |
|
|
| Quote: |
Roger wrote:
you won't pay for your housing.
Ah, rog, master of condescension and generalization. This is of course not always the case. My housing wasn't paid for (as was the case with several other FTs I knew); and those who had paid housing were living in what I'd call shacks or dormitories not fit for a British freshman straight out of High School. Be sure to check with your potential employer first. |
where's the condescension in the remark by roger, jizzo? in most cases in china (public school jobs anyway) housing is provided, and its usually more than adequate. maybe he generalized but certainly not condescending.
| Quote: |
US$550 per month is a decent wage ?
Fair suck of the sauce bottle! You might believe it but few other westerners do.
Any FT that works in China knows that this is survival and very little more.
Let�s not pretend otherwise.
And that�s OK to to work for this amount if it suits your situation but �decent? � that�s a terrible misuse of the word! |
most teachers (FT) in china are earning anywhere from RMB3500-RMB5000, and some are working at part time jobs in addition. a comfortable salary is measured against the local economy, not what you think you ought to be earning to live comfortable somewhere else. most people would say that in china, where you can buy a meal for RMB6-8, and a big bottle of beer for RMB1.5 that 5000 is not bad, certainly comfortable.
| Quote: |
| Compared with the majority of overseas workers in other professions, most of us earn a pittance, only exceeding the levels earned by maids and nannies. And of the others here on contract, most have packages that also include the invisible stuff. By the way, some of the medical insurance offered by teaching companies is farcical. |
strange, the maids i met in taiwan made 1/3 of the average esl salary and worked three times as much.
hey, if you find a job paying RMB12,000/month fill your boots. you're probably working for it, and maybe you deserve it. but maybe your expectations and desires are different from other people. i prefer my 3.5 free days (consecutive) per week and my average salary. c'est la vie.
7969
Last edited by 7969 on Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Listen, nobody has said that working in China is going to make you rich. But the salary is adequate by TEFL international standards and excellent by local ones ... is that so hard to get? You are not "surviving" here or "just scraping by." Not when you make more than 4X the salary of other teachers and professors. |
some people are never happy anthyp, and others just troll looking for a response...... :>) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:32 am Post subject: ..... |
|
|
| Quote: |
| And the middle class in China own houses, Roger. Try buying a house today on $4-5K a month if you actually want to aspire to this lifestyle you desribe as: |
wrong again. i have a reporter friend in nanning. average salary and bought a nice little apartment. chinese can get money from the bank these days, didnt you know? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lets start with an anthyp quote
| Quote: |
| Any monkey can teach English |
and don't we have a lot of them - but surely they're just going through the motions - we have to at least have reached homo erectus status, with teaching experience, qualifications and western background (yes language teaching isn't just the memorization of words) before that teaching becomes something that can be a valuable marketable resource. And when it becomes so - a wanted product - make the most of it by at least selling it at a reasonable price.
As for going back home - no thanks - I have a car, a 2 storey apartment with garden, and am in the process of renting a small farm as a weekend place - and this is not to mention my new Chinese family and my well paying TESOL business. Why should I go back - why should I be quite about these things - why shouldn't I tell other FT's - why should I be bullied into thinking the old guard here are always right - why should I be brainwashed into thinking bad wages are par for the course - why do I always get so F'ing bored with that sorry argument of low living cost equates to low wage for me?
Guys I'm living in China - not just passing through - I'm just telling you there is an alternative - and that many of you are probally being ripped off - but obviously the likes of anthyp don't want me to spill the beans.
7969 in the panzihua thread (or whatever that city is called) you already stated you didn't want money - folks please read those posts 'cause they really are good examples of the 'low wages are good movement' here at Dave�s - so at best your posts here are an irrelevance
[/b] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:39 am Post subject: .... |
|
|
vikdk wrote:
| Quote: |
As for going back home - no thanks - I have a car, a 2 storey apartment with garden, and am in the process of renting a small farm as a weekend place - and this is not to mention my new Chinese family and my well paying TESOL business. Why should I go back - why should I be quite about these things - why shouldn't I tell other FT's - why should I be bullied into thinking the old guard here are always right - why should I be brainwashed into thinking bad wages are par for the course - why do I always get so F'ing bored with that sorry argument of low living cost equates to low wage for me?
7969 in the panzihua thread (or whatever that city is called) you already stated you didn't want money - folks please read those posts 'cause they really are good examples of the 'low wages are good movement' here at Dave�s - so at best your posts here are an irrelevance |
unlike the majority of your posts on this board (the multitude of one, two and three liners where you do nothing but belittle other posters), i consider this one more constructive. at least you put some effort into this one. you should try it more often, you might feel better. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
wow I better go back to a 1 liner - that mean i get a gold star - thanks teach, the apple will be on yur desk monday morning  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
7969 made a good point. In most cases the FT's that have high salaries are usually working longer hours than the average FT. I have a good salary but I also work about 40 hours a week. I prefer it this way but I know that many FT's don't care for it.
To the OP, if you are interested in a training center then it will probably involve longer hours than at a uni. Something to think about when making the decision about where you want to work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've just reached 13k/month - do on av just over 15 hours a week - my home is my HQ - nice long lunch breaks there (helps having a car) - ohhh by the way I only teach 4 days a week (I used to hate Mondays) - yes if you don't want the hassle of working too much then thats ok to - but I suppose now I'll be accused of being lazy as well as greedy  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jizzo T. Clown
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vikdk wrote: |
| I've just reached 13k/month - do on av just over 15 hours a week - my home is my HQ - nice long lunch breaks there (helps having a car) - ohhh by the way I only teach 4 days a week (I used to hate Mondays) - yes if you don't want the hassle of working too much then thats ok to - but I suppose now I'll be accused of being lazy as well as greedy |
Whaddya want? A gold star?
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
