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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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 Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| silent-noise wrote: |
thanks for the tips...
I've never been a big fan of distance classes via the internet...so i'll probably look into any in-class classes...do columbia and temple (and sophia) offer any one of their classes in english, or just the TESOL-type ones? i'd be interested in maybe taking some side classes as well...just out of personal interest...
also, if you already have a work visa, do u need a separate (student) visa for studying in japan? |
FYI. Sophia is a Japanese university, not a foreign or a US one, and goes by the name of Jochi Daigaku. You can do a degree taught all in English, but you would end up with a Japanese university degree. |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
| Of course every university is different, but remember with a modular or "sandwich" course (at Birmingham there are two types you can do) course you are basically on your own with support from your supervisor. im in email contact about once a month, if that. |
In terms of my own experience at York I'd say that "on your own" is a classic instance of British understatement. I received little or no specific guidance in terms of directions to take the research or what to read. All I really got from the supervisors was comments on the work I very sporatically submitted. For me that wasn't really a problem as I was already well into my topic before I even joined the program (well actually there isn't any "program" per se). But I think for anyone used to the the "guided mode" of virtually all MA programs, doing a Ph.D. like this could be difficult.
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| By the time you come to your viva your supervisor will tell you whether you are ready to submit your dissertation. the viva itself is really just a formality, but you need to have done the reading and done the work beforehand. |
Paul, I am curious how the procedure works at Birmingham. At York, people attempting a Ph.D. are suppose to submit a "substantial sample of work" after about two years. Normally this amounts to the lit review section plus one or two analysis chapters from the dissertation. Then on the basis of this work and evaluation is made as to whether this work shows sufficient evidence of scholarly potential. If not the students either drops out or is shifted over to an M.Phil status. If the supervisors OK the work then the student is moved to formal D.Phil candidate status and has about a year (in a normal full-time 3 year program) to complete the disserrtation. As a "mixed registration" student I had 6 years max to complete the dissertation.
After submitting the dissertation, a viva voce (defence) is arranged. A British viva is a bit different than an American defence. The viva typically involved just two examiners (one "inside" and one "outside") who are themselves active and knowledgeable about the candidates field. No won't normally have any who is hostile to your research paradigm or general methodological orientation at the viva. The viva is typically quite low-key. In my case I sat together with the examiners for about 2 hours in one of their offices and they asked me to talk about specific issues in my dissertation. As they told me the primary goal of this viva was to establish my "ownership" of the research, i.e. to have me demonstrate that this was original research and that I was fulling in command of the findings.
At the end I was asked to leave the room for a couple of minutes and then when I came back in, I received a couple of smiles and handshakes, offered congratulations on having succeeded in my Ph.D. When then all went down to the university cafeteria and had lunch.
As I said VERY low-key. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| abufletcher wrote: |
| [In terms of my own experience at York I'd say that "on your own" is a classic instance of British understatement. I received little or no specific guidance in terms of directions to take the research or what to read. All I really got from the supervisors was comments on the work I very sporatically submitted. For me that wasn't really a problem as I was already well into my topic before I even joined the program (well actually there isn't any "program" per se). But I think for anyone used to the the "guided mode" of virtually all MA programs, doing a Ph.D. like this could be difficult. |
pretty much the same experience. I have no lectures, just me and my computer and my thoughts. Lots of books on how to write dissertations but no idea what to write about or whether its any good.
I have sent chapters for my supervisor to read and thats it. met my supervisor for the first time last winter.
I did it backwards. Got my proposal accepted and then thought about what i was going to actually research and how I would collect data. Still a work in progress.
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Paul, I am curious how the procedure works at Birmingham. At York, people attempting a Ph.D. are suppose to submit a "substantial sample of work" after about two years. Normally this amounts to the lit review section plus one or two analysis chapters from the dissertation. Then on the basis of this work and evaluation is made as to whether this work shows sufficient evidence of scholarly potential. If not the students either drops out or is shifted over to an M.Phil status. If the supervisors OK the work then the student is moved to formal D.Phil candidate status and has about a year (in a normal full-time 3 year program) to complete the disserrtation. As a "mixed registration" student I had 6 years max to complete the dissertation. |
Im now in the final year of registration and then next year is the write up stage. Havent really been told anything about the viva yet.
I'm getting a new supervisor from now so i will have to work out how she does things. I have sent some drafts and they are obviously satisfactory as I havent really had anything negative back about them.
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After submitting the dissertation, a viva voce (defence) is arranged. A British viva is a bit different than an American defence. The viva typically involved just two examiners (one "inside" and one "outside") who are themselves active and knowledgeable about the candidates field. No won't normally have any who is hostile to your research paradigm or general methodological orientation at the viva. The viva is typically quite low-key. In my case I sat together with the examiners for about 2 hours in one of their offices and they asked me to talk about specific issues in my dissertation. As they told me the primary goal of this viva was to establish my "ownership" of the research, i.e. to have me demonstrate that this was original research and that I was fulling in command of the findings.
At the end I was asked to leave the room for a couple of minutes and then when I came back in, I received a couple of smiles and handshakes, offered congratulations on having succeeded in my Ph.D. When then all went down to the university cafeteria and had lunch.
As I said VERY low-key. |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
| Lots of books on how to write dissertations but no idea what to write about or whether its any good. |
I bought all those How to Write a Dissertation books and found them pretty useless. In the end I just worked out a good outline and worked to that. I found it seemed overwhelming to think of writing an entire dissertation so I just forced myself to grind out section after section -- it ended up being 514 pages long! Actually, I found that "building a dissertation" was most analogous to the scale model building I do.
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I did it backwards. Got my proposal accepted and then thought about what i was going to actually research and how I would collect data. Still a work in progress. |
I had a pretty good idea of what I was interested in (how novice L2 speakers construct turns-at-talk in realtime/grammar-in-interaction) and even the methodology I would be working in (ethnomethodological conversation analysis) but what I actually ended up looking at in detail emerged along the way.
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| Im now in the final year of registration and then next year is the write up stage. |
I must admit I don't really understand this "year of write up" idea. I spent almost 4 years (within 6 years of registration) writing my dissertation. Maybe that's just the way things work with in my field. It's not like you just "do research" for several years and then "write up" what you found. I found it to be very much more like peeling an onion. Everytime I wrote up one part of the research some new aspect of the phenonenon would present itself and I'd have to go back to the data (the video) for a deeper look. |
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silent-noise
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:26 am Post subject: |
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[quote="PAULH"]
| silent-noise wrote: |
thanks for the tips...
What do you mean TESOL-type ones? the M.ED is an Education Masters majoring in TESOL. It's a TESOL degree. You can take up to 9 credits or 3 courses (you have to pay for them though at 200,000 yen a 3-credit course) before you decide to matriculate as a registered TUJ student. |
i guess what i mean when i say TESOL-type courses, i meant those that u need to take in order to acquire the MA in TESOL....so i'm curious to know if there are any universities in japan that offer non-TESOL courses (e.g. film, marketing, art history, etc.) in english.... |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| abufletcher wrote: |
| Jared, I hate to say it but I would be even more leery of US "distance degrees" than a UK based one. The UK has a long tradition of degrees based on research alone. But I think many many US distance degrees really just come off as diploma mills. You'd probably be better off as an American doing a degree at a UK university if you can't go the traditional US Ph.D. route. |
As an American, I've leaned toward US distance degrees because the US system is what I know. But you make a good point about the UK's greater experience with research-based studies. I'll look more closely at the UK offerings.
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| I wouldn't be too impressed by PR hyping a list of "famous alumni" and even less impressed by examples of "hiring one's own." |
I wouldn't go anywhere near Phoenix or Capella. I think Shenandoah looks good, as does U Indiana. For someone who needs just a certificate, UCLA Extension seems worthwhile. |
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silent-noise
Joined: 14 Jun 2005
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:46 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Vince"]
| abufletcher wrote: |
For someone who needs just a certificate, UCLA Extension seems worthwhile. |
i took the UCLA Extension courses to obtain my TEFL certificate....it wasn't too difficult...actually found it pretty fun...i did it mainly because of the name-recognition...is UCLA well-known in japan? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| silent-noise wrote: |
i guess what i mean when i say TESOL-type courses, i meant those that u need to take in order to acquire the MA in TESOL....so i'm curious to know if there are any universities in japan that offer non-TESOL courses (e.g. film, marketing, art history, etc.) in english.... |
Some universities offer courses taught in English for non-Japanese speakers. They are designed for foreign exchange students who do one or two semesters in Japan at a Japanese university and transfer credits to their home university. You can not do the whole undergraduate or masters degree in English except at Sophia, Temple or Columbia (Masters only). TUJ offers graduate and undergraduate degrees and you can do non-degree continuing education courses at Temple in Tokyo.
You dont need to do TESOL courses to take an MA in TESOL. I graduated with a BA in History and English before I entered TUJ. You simply need to be enrolled in the three matriculated courses and get a B-average in your first three courses to be admitted to the Masters program.
One school I am familar with (as I worked there for 2 years) is Kansai Gaidai which has many humanities courses taught in English for foreign and non-Japanese students and taught by English native speaker professors.
http://www.kansaigaidai.ac.jp
Temple University Japan Continuing education
http://www.tuj.ac.jp/newsite/main/cont-ed/coursedescriptionmain.html |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: |
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[quote="silent-noise"]
| PAULH wrote: |
| silent-noise wrote: |
thanks for the tips...
What do you mean TESOL-type ones? the M.ED is an Education Masters majoring in TESOL. It's a TESOL degree. You can take up to 9 credits or 3 courses (you have to pay for them though at 200,000 yen a 3-credit course) before you decide to matriculate as a registered TUJ student. |
i guess what i mean when i say TESOL-type courses, i meant those that u need to take in order to acquire the MA in TESOL....so i'm curious to know if there are any universities in japan that offer non-TESOL courses (e.g. film, marketing, art history, etc.) in english.... |
I think Sophia University teaches all their courses in English. It's a Japanese degree, but from a respected school.
Do you know how expensive Japanese schools and satellite campuses of foreign schools are? I checked out Sophia, and just the entry fee was as much as my first two semesters at Temple U. in Philadelphia. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| Vince wrote: |
| Do you know how expensive Japanese schools and satellite campuses of foreign schools are? I checked out Sophia, and just the entry fee was as much as my first two semesters at Temple U. in Philadelphia. |
Sophia has degree courses for both Japanese and English speakers
http://www.sophia.ac.jp/E/E_admissions.nsf/Content/admissions
I can only speak for the M.Ed TESOL course at Temple which is now around 2 million yen in order to graduate. You can take up to five years to finish your degree part time (30 credits). I dont know off hand about undergraduate courses.
http://www.tuj.ac.jp/newsite/main/undergrad/admissions/procedures/tuition.html
A 3 credit course at TUJ is 200,000 yen for a 12 week semester.
Columbia in Tokyo has about 35 credits and costs about 2.5 million yen over 3 years. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Vince wrote: |
| abufletcher wrote: |
| Jared, I hate to say it but I would be even more leery of US "distance degrees" than a UK based one. The UK has a long tradition of degrees based on research alone. But I think many many US distance degrees really just come off as diploma mills. You'd probably be better off as an American doing a degree at a UK university if you can't go the traditional US Ph.D. route. |
As an American, I've leaned toward US distance degrees because the US system is what I know. But you make a good point about the UK's greater experience with research-based studies. I'll look more closely at the UK offerings.
| Quote: |
| I wouldn't be too impressed by PR hyping a list of "famous alumni" and even less impressed by examples of "hiring one's own." |
I wouldn't go anywhere near Phoenix or Capella. I think Shenandoah looks good, as does U Indiana. For someone who needs just a certificate, UCLA Extension seems worthwhile. |
The big fear about degrees in the US is that there is no national regulation of universities (there are regional ones which are not as good). Anyone could call themselves a university and you have to do your research to make sure it is a legit school. On campus schools are not a problem because you can see for yourself how "real" it is.
Canada, Australia, UK and NZ (perhaps?) all have national recognition by their gov'ts. You can be sure it is a real university because the gov't says it is. The US gov't does not give that guarantee, that is why you have to be more cautious. That is not to say US distance degrees are not good, but they have the most scams too. BTW, I think the school with the best reputation (in my opinion) is SIT in Vermont. You better have 40K US though to go there. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Gordon wrote: |
| Canada, Australia, UK and NZ (perhaps?) all have national recognition by their gov'ts. You can be sure it is a real university because the gov't says it is. . |
I'm currently not up with the play on New Zealand tertiary institutions but generally speaking all universities, colleges and technical institutes, teacher's colleges etc are accredited and recognised by the government and recognised overseas.
There are no 'diploma mills' in New Zealand and they would be shut down very quickly if there were.
In fact one of my colleagues in Japan did his PhD by distance with the University of Victoria in Wellington, under Paul Nation. I think Auckland University Dept of Linguistics offers some degree courses by distance as well.
Last edited by PAULH on Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Paul, I thought so to about NZ, but was never certain. |
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ghostrider
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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I have a few questions related to this topic. I was wondering if MAs matter much outside of teaching in Japan? I get the impression they don't, at least for Japanese, but maybe it's different for foreigners.
I ask because I'm learning quickly how difficult and expensive it is to get over there. It is looking more unrealistic that I'll go there, only stay a year, then come back here for graduate school.
Even if I'm feeling pressure to get my MA now because of age (mid to late 20s), I suppose it's still better to go there now pre-MA, find out if I even want to continue studying that region, and figure out what my best options are. If I go to graduate school before living and working there first, assuming I want to specialize and work in Japan, I could end up really disappointed and in even more debt. |
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MrCAPiTUL
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 232
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Ghost, generally speaking - the higher the degree and the more advanced your education is, the more opportunities you will have to work in the world doing what you love to do. I think that holds true in almost any discipline of study. |
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