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Porlestone
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 95
Location: Asia
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 Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| mrfate, seems to me like you are getting too relativistic, "in other countries you this and that, so in vietnam that too" stuff. and getting too philosophical. and while you are at it, batting for the other team all for the purposes of idealism, all the while being righteous. |
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mrfate
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:30 am Post subject: Balance... |
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| Quote: |
| mrfate, seems to me like you are getting too relativistic, "in other countries you this and that, so in vietnam that too" stuff. and getting too philosophical. and while you are at it, batting for the other team all for the purposes of idealism, all the while being righteous. |
 Just trying to keep balance... And since there aren't alot of people on this forum who support me, maybe I have tried too hard to present my ideas... I hope some people get something from this thread... |
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Thay Jim
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 13
Location: HCMC, Viet Nam
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: "Beat the drum loudly and then throw away the drumstick |
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The big boss men and poobahs in Ha Noi suffers from ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder.) They never seem to finish anything they start. New laws, regulations, programmes, etc. are announced with a great deal of hoopla and a generous dose of their trademark"do-dah!" propaganda. But after a few months time, all is forgotten and the country reverts to its old ways of doing things.
Therefore, the current work permit requirement will eventually morph into something totally unrelated to its original intent. That's the way it works here in VN. The government is faced with the daunting task of keeping a million or so party members and their wives, sons and daughters employed. So never, ever expect the rules, regulations and silly walks to end. They just become weirder.
I agree with the practice of checking out who is teaching children. A country that doesn't run a background check on its teachers is irresponsible, and may end up with world-renowned scumballs like Gary Glitter masquerading as English teachers and boinking 14-year-olds. (Whoops!) But VN is nursing a vanity when it requires instructors to have TEFL certificates and university degrees. This is a developing country that is in desperate need of training - not only in English, but in a wide range technical skills such as HVAC/IT/ medical technology, etc. And if VN wishes to integrate into the world economy, training in social skills is indicated (Starting first with etiquette, driver's education, and basic hygiene.)
I happen to enjoy living and working here in VN. But I am the type who thrives on adversity and a smattering of chaos. And I like the people, for the most part. I agree, VN would be such a nice, orderly country if they only behaved like WE behave and do the things we do. But they aren't going to. That's their choice. Of course, suffer the masses who try to make ends meet on $100/month. But again, that is the choice they made.
A potentate at a prestigious HCMC gave me an important piece of advice on how to cope with Vietnam: "No matter how big the problem is, it can always be worked out." That can't be said in most Western countries.
am, |
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VC
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:12 am Post subject: Re: "Beat the drum loudly and then throw away the drums |
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| Thay Jim wrote: |
I agree with the practice of checking out who is teaching children. |
I just came form Korea. You don't have to submit to background checks in Korea. In how many other countries do you have to do this? The requirements for a work permit seem excessive. I recently arrived in Saigon and am wondering if it is worth looking for a job. Suppose I find a job and then a few weeks later get deported? After reading all the posts here it sounds like a person has to spend several hundred dollars gettting their documents translated and verified. This complicated and confusing process takes several months. In Korea I never had to get any documents translated. And if there are mass deportation of teachers isn't Vietnam going to have a serious shortage of English teachers? |
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mrfate
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:17 am Post subject: Same Same but Same |
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| I just came form Korea. You don't have to submit to background checks in Korea. In how many other countries do you have to do this? The requirements for a work permit seem excessive. I recently arrived in Saigon and am wondering if it is worth looking for a job. Suppose I find a job and then a few weeks later get deported? After reading all the posts here it sounds like a person has to spend several hundred dollars gettting their documents translated and verified. This complicated and confusing process takes several months. In Korea I never had to get any documents translated. And if there are mass deportation of teachers isn't Vietnam going to have a serious shortage of English teachers? |
They have actually been asking for these documents for 2 years now... so it's nothing new... and every 6 months there is a big ruckas and the school scramble to register their teachers... then it goes away again...
I actually haven't heard of the need to get your document translated... if you need that.. then your school should do it for free for you... if not... get a job somewhere else... My school actually reemburses most of the cost of getting these documents... (well at least the medical and Visa) which is the most expensive part. (Unless you are from the US)
Don't worry too much.. just go with the flow and see what happens... No one is getting deported... some people are just being told to leave their current jobs. And I'm figuring it's schools that don't play too well with the government. |
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Proffeshnial Teachman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Same Same but Same |
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| mrfate wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I just came form Korea. You don't have to submit to background checks in Korea. In how many other countries do you have to do this? The requirements for a work permit seem excessive. I recently arrived in Saigon and am wondering if it is worth looking for a job. Suppose I find a job and then a few weeks later get deported? After reading all the posts here it sounds like a person has to spend several hundred dollars gettting their documents translated and verified. This complicated and confusing process takes several months. In Korea I never had to get any documents translated. And if there are mass deportation of teachers isn't Vietnam going to have a serious shortage of English teachers? |
They have actually been asking for these documents for 2 years now... so it's nothing new... and every 6 months there is a big ruckas and the school scramble to register their teachers... then it goes away again...
I actually haven't heard of the need to get your document translated... if you need that.. then your school should do it for free for you... if not... get a job somewhere else... My school actually reemburses most of the cost of getting these documents... (well at least the medical and Visa) which is the most expensive part. (Unless you are from the US)
Don't worry too much.. just go with the flow and see what happens... No one is getting deported... some people are just being told to leave their current jobs. And I'm figuring it's schools that don't play too well with the government. |
Sorry Mr Fate but that is not correct. The work permit has been an issue for about a year but it has never been applied until now. It is now being applied with such ferocity that loads are teachers have had enough and those who are seeking to comply are wasting time and money in a fruitless chase for stamps, many of which are being rejected by the Vietnamese Labor officials.
Lets get it clear......what do 'they' actually demand>
Degree AND teaching certificate - one or the other is not good enough (unless the degree is in English teaching).
Medical check
Criminal background check - OK for some, costly and impractical for US citizens
CV
All the above need to be notorised by your consulate AND translated into Vietnamese. The teachers in my school are having extreme difficulty just getting the stamp from their consulate and several have found that they have wasted resources in paying for nothing. Each visit to the consulate to get (up to 5) items stamped costs 500,000 VND or 30 USD.
Oh yes and they ARE deporting people ask at VATC. The first time you're caught teaching with no permit you get sacked by the state, not the school. The second time you are caught teaching anywhere you get deported. That's been part of the rules since day one. |
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mrfate
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: Wow.. isn't life easy!? |
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| All the above need to be notorised by your consulate AND translated into Vietnamese. The teachers in my school are having extreme difficulty just getting the stamp from their consulate and several have found that they have wasted resources in paying for nothing. Each visit to the consulate to get (up to 5) items stamped costs 500,000 VND or 30 USD. |
Wow!  That sounds like a pain in the ass... Thank god everything is done by my school. All I have to do it hand in the documents. They even pay for the medical! (Luckily I live in a country where I can apply for the PC certificate from this country - Only costs $15-$20)
I think your schools should be doing the hard work for you. It is in their best interest after all! |
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Proffeshnial Teachman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Wow! That sounds like a pain in the ass... Thank god everything is done by my school. All I have to do it hand in the documents. They even pay for the medical! (Luckily I live in a country where I can apply for the PC certificate from this country - Only costs $15-$20)
I think your schools should be doing the hard work for you. It is in their best interest after all! |
Yes I know!
I've taken the easy option and got out, but I'll keep an eye on proceedings from overseas. I would guess you're a Brit from the cost your background check. I'd also guess you are from ILA, RMIT or maybe VUS from the help you get with your permit. 
For the people thinking of coming here, help like this is the exception and not the rule. |
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mrfate
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| 've taken the easy option and got out, but I'll keep an eye on proceedings from overseas. I would guess you're a Brit from the cost your background check. I'd also guess you are from ILA, RMIT or maybe VUS from the help you get with your permit. |
Hahaha.. not a Brit! But you are right about the type of school that looks after their teachers... |
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VC
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| After you are hired is there a grace period of a few months in which you can obtain the work permit? Or are you expected to obtain it immediately? |
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Proffeshnial Teachman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| I would assume so but how long you're given is anyone's guess. I'd hold off a bit if possible for a while. |
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j.jake
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:43 am Post subject: Which schools ? |
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| can anyone specify which schools excactly have been victims of the recent "crackdown"....................... |
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ESL_Professional
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| You say that seven teachers from a major school recently got sacked for not having work permits. Can you let me know what school that was? When this happens is the worst thing that happens is the teacher loses his job with the school or does he get deported also? |
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Blade
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Wow.. isn't life easy!? |
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| mrfate wrote: |
| Quote: |
| All the above need to be notorised by your consulate AND translated into Vietnamese. The teachers in my school are having extreme difficulty just getting the stamp from their consulate and several have found that they have wasted resources in paying for nothing. Each visit to the consulate to get (up to 5) items stamped costs 500,000 VND or 30 USD. |
Wow! That sounds like a pain in the ass... Thank god everything is done by my school. All I have to do it hand in the documents. They even pay for the medical! (Luckily I live in a country where I can apply for the PC certificate from this country - Only costs $15-$20)
I think your schools should be doing the hard work for you. It is in their best interest after all! |
The schools that are attempting to help teachers get their work permits are now using this as a tool to make you sign a contract and use the work permit as a bargaining chip. The schools are using this to get the upper hand over teachers. |
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spycatcher reincarnated
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 236
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Blade wrote:
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| The schools that are attempting to help teachers get their work permits are now using this as a tool to make you sign a contract and use the work permit as a bargaining chip. The schools are using this to get the upper hand over teachers. |
Having a contract is a prerequisite for getting a work permit. |
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