Job Discussion Forums

[Gregor]

It's not entirely the school's fault that there is this kind of trouble with visas. But it's largely their fault.
The problem is that the Chinese government has made a bunch of changes. These changes were made ALMOST a year ago now. The way things are set up here now is very similar to how things have worked for a long time in Indonesia. If the school would just suck it up and quit trying to take shortcuts, the steps would be like this:
1. Teacher comes out on a tourist visa.
2. School gets all the paperwork together with the government and makes arrangements through an agent in Hong Kong and all this sort of thing. In the mean time, the teacher chills out or maybe teaches a couple of classes for cash-in-hand. Whatever.
4. When everything is in order, teacher would go to Hong Kong, drop off her passport at the desk, and goes out and enjoys the place with a couple of HK dollars that the school has provided (the school has also provided the accommodations for this trip, by the way).
5. A couple days later, the teacher goes back to the desk, picks up the passport with a new Z visa (or whatever) and goes back to work.

FINISHED.

But a lot of schools try to get the teacher to work out all these crazy things to get the Z visa before leaving for China. It's expensive and a serious pain. If teachers would quit doing this and force the schools to deal with what they need to deal with or else just not come out, they (the schools) would get their acts together.
In fact, this is what my school has had to do with me as DoS, because I am always telling teachers NOT to do this or that. I tell them to insist on the school dealing with it, or not take the job.
I'm sure that my school will go back to the old ways once I'm gone, and that's a pity. But the point is, do not let a school make you do illegal things. Yes, things work a bit differently in China than in other countries. And I have gone on record saying that it's really not THAT big a deal to do things just a LITTLE bit illegally. And if you're not too uncomfortable with that, you'll probably be OK.
But I have mostly changed my tune. There ARE laws, and if you do not want to break them, make sure the school understands this with no question - tell them, "I WILL NOT work for money until I have a Z Visa. I WILL NOT work on an F visa or an L (tourist) visa."
If they can't convince you - in English - that they have everything sorted out, then either do not take the job, or just don't get pissy on this forum when things get dodgy. Because they will get dodgy. Be ready to cope with it...or don't cope with it at all.

[Roger]

Gregor,
you cannot force the schools to change tack, to learn the ropes of hiring overseas-based teachers or how to deal with their own bureaucracy properly: they are too inefficient, don't trust the written word and always believe they caqn cut corners (which some will try no matter what), while others believe they can sort things out through the use of the back door. There is too little trust in the law, hence everyone feels it's a matter of connections.
If FTs were to try to make them abide by their own regulations, they would not listen to us but hire those FTs who don't care either - and, unfortunately, there are more of those than of others who would prefer the legal option.
The Chinese are not used to planning ahead and taking details seriously; they always muddle thorugh.

[Aussiegirl]

I think you're all fantastic getting involved and sharing your knowledge and advice.
I offered to come on a tourist visa to my school but apparently it's not possible to convert the visa so now they have offered an alternative plan. (Not sure why they can do this now, but can make assumptions why this didn't happen in first place.) They are now going to organise a formal Visa Notice and an Alien employment license which together should allow me to apply for a Z visa here. They will fulfill all the requirements apart from the obvious passport and visa application. So fingers crossed all will progress from here. Meanwhile, many thanks to all for your input. I hope to post an ecstatic, I'm here, in a few weeks time and to let you know how my China experience is going. To a raw newbie and totally unseasoned traveller your advice has been invaluable.
PS: To the special people who have also posted me by PMP over the months, a big thank to all of you too.

[Gregor]

I agree Roger. 100%, you are right.
I guess my main point was that you have to be ready to deal with dodgy practices, or else go somewhere else.

By the way, folks, I had similarly dodgy practices in Mexico, Lebanon and Indonesia as well. It's never a problem. It's really easy for flamers and trolls (I can never keep the two straight) on this forum to latch onto these dodgy practices for the purpose of saying that this school or that recruiter is not to be trusted.
This is true also, so far as it goes. But if you don't lighten up a little bit, you may as well not enter the world of ESL. I'm not saying that laws are made to be broken, exactly, Aussiegirl. I suggest that you do make a concerted effort to make sure that you eventually have your legal working papers. That much should be possible and expected. But I personally wouldn't worry myself in the slightest how those papers were to be obtained.
Again - if you are concerned about it, then don't leave home.

By the way, Aussiegirl - no problem. We are happy to help you out. We are also showing off our experience and relative expertise, and we're bored and addicted to the forum and we're happy to have something to say something about here.
If it's of some sort of value to you, then all the better. ;-)

[vikdk]

problem with the F visa is that even big suposedly respectable companies like EF will try to get away with using them - just goes to show how shady firms like EF are!!!

[Gregor]

[Roger]