Job Discussion Forums

[Itsme]

First of all, enter into all research and negotiations free from emotion. A potential FT can often be lured into a false sense of security by sweet-talking employers and recruiters; I know I have before! Don�t take anything as being final until you finally step off the airplane and into the classroom door for your first class, and even then your worries are just beginning. Also, many hasty decisions are made due to acting in the �heat of the moment.� �I can�t take this place anymore!!! I am moving to China! To Thailand! To ______, which I�ve never heard of� just as long as its not here. I can�t wait and so I�m going to take the first job that I can find.� This is the only reason I can see for a lack of research. I know that I, at times, feel like I should just go and take up the first thing that comes along but I should and hopefully believe that my time is valuable enough to me so that I WILL NOT let somebody take advantage of me for my lack of knowledge.

Think about it. Concerning salary, a recruiter can dish up any old story about why you should be paid 4000 less RMB per month than you should be making unless you know what the avg. salary of other FTs are. Some company can tell you that it�s ok for you to work on a tourist visa when of course it is not. All of these things can be avoided when A) There is a large source of RELIABLE and ACCURATE information you can look to concerning what it is you want to do, B) The information is easy to locate. C) People take the time to locate it.
I personally believe that (B) is the most difficult issue at the time. If information was not so scattered all over the place then it would make research so much easier. I think that the ideal informational website would contain AT LEAST the following:
1) A list comprising ALL of the available positions available in a certain country. Job postings should be deleted after so many days so that I don�t find postings from 1987 when I look for jobs.
2) A blacklist/green list with contact information for past teachers for at least all of the above-mentioned companies.
3) A section dealing with the necessary paperwork and visas for entering and working in the particular country, in addition to the types of Bull #$%# to expect from employers in this area. For example: Don�t let your employer hold on to your passport or your degree; or you need such a type of visa and make sure your company can provide you with this precise letter of invitation.
4) A section with tips on finding the cheapest airfare into and out of the country. One-way or two-way tickets? Companies which allow you to refund tickets if not used.
5) A section where FT�s discuss standard contracts and certain issues which collectively all of us FT�s would benefit by collectively demanding more from employers on such and such issues.
6) Links to information about particular cities. What is there to do in the city? What does it look like? What types of cultural activities can I take part in?
7) ((Insert your dream-function here.))

In conclusion, I don�t believe that anyone should be cheated, even if they don�t do their research. We FTs set the standard out there. If these people continue to see us as a bunch of idiots then we will continue to be treated as such. If even just a few of us allow employers to cheat us then they will believe that we are all to be cheated (or at least they may try) and then we will have to waste way too much time in separating the scams from the good stuff. I think that the whole should not be spoiled by the few and I second any and all who are trying to set up websites for research but remember that it is perhaps better to have one great website where we all contribute rathar than 900 separate websites with bits and pieces of the puzzle scattered all over the place.

[Brian Caulfield]

Ya success breeds comtempt . You must fight for your money here . If we don't we don't get respect . It is the one thing I have learned from business people who have been in this country for a while .

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

And perhaps the moral of the story, once again, is to never tell your boss you're leaving until you have every mao owed to you securely in your pocket. Once you show that you are of no future value, you stand a good chance of losing what you are owed. Of course, you'll probably never succeed through the courts, and creating a bad reputation for the perpetrators is not going to help you out of your situation. We see posts of this nature all too often.

[HunanForeignGuy]

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

I wodon't mean this as encouragement to pull a midnight run. I think of a runner as somebody who breaks their contract and flees mid-term. That kind of behaviour damages the reputation of FTs and should be reserved for the most extreme cases. This advice is for those who have successfully completed all their teaching duties and fulfilled their contractual obligations. After you have done these things, you can walk away in broad daylight with your head held high and a general feeling of security. In China, it seems that the best response to the question, "Are you going to teach with us again next term?" is either "Probably." or "Maybe.". A vague response meshes well with the national psyche.

[tw]

[Brian Caulfield]

It is a question of continuance . Do they want to have new teachers follow in your footsteps and do a quality job like you have done or or they just looking at making a quick profit . A smart teacher contacts the teachers who work at the establishment and ask how long they have worked there . It the establishment is just in it for the short term they avoid this confrontation .

[vikdk]

to right Brian - which takes me back to my point of in-country job finding-

Contacting teachers here in China seems to be much easier ( buy em a drink - and they'l soon spil the beans)- at least they are easy to identify (those white faced monkeys that hang out in bars that play funny music) - face to face communication would also seem to have advantages (but of course depends on how many drinks you buy 'em) - wow you can even go and look at the school and accom

disadvantages of the in-country method-

1. costs more on initial outlay - Going to HK, longer wait to first pay check
2, aint got somebody to meet you an look after you - some schools will do this - when you first arrive (anyway who needs a babysitter)
3, buying that F visa from Hong Kong - but it aint that much, much simpler than dealing with embassies back home, and just think of the luxury of having the insurance of 6 legal months in China if things didn't work out with finding that dream job (if you got the money of course).
4. you aint sitting next to your computer - but remember so many internet bars here!!!! and damn sight cheaper to use the phone when job hunting!!!

Of course no imagination - and all of this has been said before - but always good to bring things up again which could usefull to some

[clark.w.griswald]

Just to clarify before I post I think that the decision as to whether to arrive on a Z visa or get one while you are here is an individual decision that teachers need to make according to their own circumstances. There are advantages and disadvantages of both and I personally do not lean either way on this subject.

[Louras]

Why is it that when somebody has clearly been cheated, rog and clarkie defends the Chinese side of things? I'd like nothing more than when you get screwed, you tell us of how you'd overcome the system. You are of no positives to this forum. This is a forum where screwed people like us can vent. Piss off and go receive your guanxi from the PSB.

[clark.w.griswald]

[vikdk]

clarkie - as ya see point one in my disadvantages list is exactly what you is saying - you have to be a bit carefull broth or you'll also start to be painted with dat unimaginative brush

anyways kinda more fun and cheaper to wait around here than back home - and with a decent employer helping in gettin all that beauracratic Howya spell that?) stuff sorted out! (all employers are decent here - aint they Big C)

by the way don't a lot of people come here anyways on the request of their new employers on an L visa - would of thought gettin someone to come out on here on one of those would really pile the pressure on the new FT when it came to any negotiations with the new boss - you know how those promises made by mail or telephone often have a funny habit of changing in country - but i better shut up my imagination is surely running riot - getting an F visa and giving yourself a good chunk of time to find a job "in country" sorry Big C I'll try not to use my brain so much - leave you and R to do that

[clark.w.griswald]

[Roger]

[Roger]